# Fox News deliberately destroying America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256 "2010-08-24T05:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/61 "2010-08-24T22:33:18Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > It’s plenty relevant - this individual has been involved in some controversy in the past, in which his statements have indicated a certain worldview. That maybe our history of interference in the Middle East had at least something to do with our current situation? Glen Beck said he agrees with that. > [@](#): > > Now that he is involved in another controversy, people are going to be looking at those earlier statements. Now, while overreacting and using that incident as a sole basis for interpreting the prince’s actions wouldn’t be smart, neither would dismissing, ignoring or concealing them. Like Fox seemed to ignore their connection with him? > [@](#): > > The business arrangements Rupert Murdock has with the prince has little to do with whether he is newsworthy - he earns that on his own. He earned it when he made the comments in 2001, he earned it when he donated money to Palestinians in 2002 - some of which went to the families of suicide bombers. Again - this is a small portion of the man’s activities as a businessman - but this aspect of his life is present and is remarked upon when his other activities come into prominence. Yeah, that was kind of Jon’s Point. If Fox tries hard to imply some terroist connection to Alaweed in order to make Ruaf and Park 51 look bad , they only make themselves look bad by a similar financial connection. Evidently if we support Fox, Apple, or Pepsi we are funding terrorism. Well screww that. World peace or my ipod? Sorry world peace. We should be aware enough to be wary rather than gullible. Examine the facts anbd do some digging to see who’s who. When Fox decides to do their dance they ignore the positive, even when they applauded it before, to focus on anything that can be given a negative slant. That, IMO is an incredible insult toward Fox viewers. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/62 "2010-08-24T22:44:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not if you watch the whole thing. As I said above, he was only mentioned at the end, and it was very quick. This was not a segment about Alaweed. It was a segment about the Imam’s wife and what she said-- and they did name her and show a video clip of her. I get your point and acknowledge that it was not about Alaweed, but he was mentioned to specifically to make Rauf look bad. A vague mention of some unamed bad guy whose money is tainted without any verification or identification is pretty lame commentary. As I said before, all his points about JCC seemed like a purposeful stretch to create a negative and very weak when approached with reason, unless there’s something about life in NYC I just don’t understand. How many communities are within a short subway ride of the proposed site? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/63 "2010-08-24T23:33:51Z")
Seems more like deliberately confusing “community” with “neighborhood”. “Well, since there are very few Muslims living in the near vicinity, it can’t be a ‘community center’, therefore it can only be jihadist terror recruiting center.” Really hard to refudiate logic like that. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/64 "2010-08-24T23:43:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Seems more like deliberately confusing “community” with “neighborhood”. “Well, since there are very few Muslims living in the near vicinity, it can’t be a ‘community center’, therefore it can only be jihadist terror recruiting center.” Really hard to refudiate logic like that. so we agree it’s just more bullshit by intention? ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/65 "2010-08-24T23:57:43Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > It’s plenty relevant - this individual has been involved in some controversy in the past, in which his statements have indicated a certain worldview. > > Now that he is involved in another controversy, people are going to be looking at those earlier statements. Now, while overreacting and using that incident as a sole basis for interpreting the prince’s actions wouldn’t be smart, neither would dismissing, ignoring or concealing them. > . Is he involved in another controversy? I thought part of the deal was that Fox kept making these insinuations but that he hasn’t actually been shown to have pledged any money towards the project or be involved in any other way. I definitely may have missed the factual basis of the claim by Fox, but I honestly thought his involvement is nothing more than a hypothetical scenario that has been spun to sound like fact. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/66 "2010-08-25T00:24:27Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > Not if you watch the whole thing. As I said above, he was only mentioned at the end, and it was very quick. This was not a segment about Alaweed. It was a segment about the Imam’s wife and what she said-- and they did name her and show a video clip of her. > > I get your point and acknowledge that it was not about Alaweed, but he was mentioned to specifically to make Rauf look bad. A vague mention of some unamed bad guy whose money is tainted without any verification or identification is pretty lame commentary. As I said before, all his points about JCC seemed like a purposeful stretch to create a negative and very weak when approached with reason, unless there’s something about life in NYC I just don’t understand. How many communities are within a short subway ride of the proposed site? No, that guy (Senor, I think his name is) did not offer anything to back up the claims he made about the Kingdom Foundation. And while that makes his argument pretty weak, it’s not all that unusual in this type of quick interview on CNN or MSNBC either. He talks about there not being a “community” to serve there, and I take it he means “residential community”. However, I would assume there are lots of people who work in the area, and who might use the facilities before or after work, or during lunch hours. The mosque part is supposed to be only a small part of the facility. So, I guess we can debate about whether or not Fox is trying to push the “mosque issue” as part of their agenda, but I don’t think that would be a very interesting debate. This thread, though, is all about the outrageous behavior of Senor (who is not a Fox employee, but was guest on the show) not naming names. Just checking my outrage meter on that, and it’s not registering anything. All I see is Stewart taking something out of context, and poking fun at Fox. Then it gets picked up by MediaMatters and Daily Kos, and, lo and behold, ends up as a gotcha thread in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/67 "2010-08-25T00:25:54Z")
What did Stewart take out of context? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/68 "2010-08-25T00:27:48Z")
My guess? Someone got a little overzealous at Fox and an internal smackdown is coming, followed by a public retraction. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/69 "2010-08-25T00:42:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, that guy (Senor, I think his name is) did not offer anything to back up the claims he made about the Kingdom Foundation. And while that makes his argument pretty weak, it’s not all that unusual in this type of quick interview on CNN or MSNBC either. He talks about there not being a “community” to serve there, and I take it he means “residential community”. However, I would assume there are lots of people who work in the area, and who might use the facilities before or after work, or during lunch hours. The mosque part is supposed to be only a small part of the facility. > > So, I guess we can debate about whether or not Fox is trying to push the “mosque issue” as part of their agenda, but I don’t think that would be a very interesting debate. This thread, though, is all about the outrageous behavior of Senor (who is not a Fox employee, but was guest on the show) not naming names. Just checking my outrage meter on that, and it’s not registering anything. All I see is Stewart taking something out of context, and poking fun at Fox. Then it gets picked up by MediaMatters and Daily Kos, and, lo and behold, ends up as a gotcha thread in GD. Do you think he was a paid guest on the show? Like a lot of their special guests analysts and conntributors I got the impression he was brought in especially to agree and bolster their narritive about the Community Center. Okay, I can accept as reasonable that for that specifc section Alaweed was mentioned in passing and he wasn’t really the point. Having made mention of some unnamed bankroller from a foundtion with terrorist ties that is funding the project and while also painting Rauf as two faced in his communication in a previous section that I watched, don’t you think Fox has some interest in following up that information and going into more detail about this man who funds radical MAdrasahs all over the world? Let’s see what else we hear about Alaweed on Fox and if they substantiate any of the allegations. Usually their pattern is to do all the damage they can with innuendo and guilt by tenuous association without having to substantiate much. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/70 "2010-08-25T00:43:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What did Stewart take out of context? the few seconds at the end. The overall discussion was not really about Alaweed and his funding. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/71 "2010-08-25T00:58:14Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > > > So I’m watching The Daily Show with Jon Stewart this evening, and he does yet another take down of the evil idiots on Fox News, pointing out how the guy funding the two blocks from ground zero mosque is the same guy who offered $10 million to NYC to rebuild back in 2001… > > Aren’t you or Jon Stewart leaving out a considerable portion of this story? > > This prince did offer $10 million to rebuild, but then suggested that the United States should reexamine its policies in the Middle East and address the issues that led to an attack. > > Rudolph Giuliani stated that this was drawing a moral equivalence between liberal democracies and those that condoned terrorism, and turned down the $10 million. This was quite newsworthy at the time, and mentioning the donation without the attendant controversy is irresponsible. > > I can’t watch the video right now - so forgive me if Jon Stewart raised the issue. You should have also mentioned it in your OP. No, I should not have because I don’t think it is relevant to anything and has no importance how they attempt to smear a man’s charitable donation while destroying America through the propagation of stupidity. You do, and you mentioned it. That makes you Mr. Moto, and good for you. The local Muslims have a right to make a community center in America anywhere they want to and if the widows and widowers of 9/11 don’t like it, though shit. But the only 9/11 widower I have heard on the subject is ultra conservative Ted Olsen who says they have a right to have it and should have it where they want it. This whole controversy is manufactured to stir up religious hatred against Muslims. 99.99 percent of American Muslims are perfectly ordinary contributing citizens. The handful of exceptions are no different than the Eric Rudolph’s and Timothy McVeigh’s that the right embraces and goads into violence far more regularly than is healthy. Stirring up religious hatred against Jews is wrong and despicable. So is stirring up hatred against Christians, Hindus and Muslims. That is what Fox News is doing to drive up ratings. The only exception is that it is acceptable to club Buddhists who cheat on their wife with 120 different women because he is the second most famous Buddhist in America after the Dali Lama and before Richard Gere. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/72 "2010-08-25T01:29:28Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > What did Stewart take out of context? > > the few seconds at the end. The overall discussion was not really about Alaweed and his funding. That doesn’t mean it was taken out of context. It wasn’t. “Out of context” implies that certain words are selected in such a way as to give an impresion that the speaker is saying something different from what he actually said. That is not the case here. The speaker said and meant exactly what he was represented as having said and meant. The previous conversation leading up to that statement does not alter anything about it’s meaning or intent. It was not taken out of context. it was given with _full_ context. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/73 "2010-08-25T02:21:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > the few seconds at the end. The overall discussion was not really about Alaweed and his funding. > > That doesn’t mean it was taken out of context. It wasn’t. “Out of context” implies that certain words are selected in such a way as to give an impresion that the speaker is saying something different from what he actually said. That is not the case here. The speaker said and meant exactly what he was represented as having said and meant. The previous conversation leading up to that statement does not alter anything about it’s meaning or intent. It was not taken out of context. it was given with _full_ context. Indeed. “The Imam and his wife have something shady going on, what do we really know about them? After all, the mosque is being funded by this shady guy with shady dealings.” If we accept that financial dealings with Shady Guy is evidence of shadyness as Fox and Friends claims, then given that the shady guy has dealings with Fox too, our only recourse is to presume Fox is shady too. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/74 "2010-08-25T02:47:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > the few seconds at the end. The overall discussion was not really about Alaweed and his funding. > > That doesn’t mean it was taken out of context. It wasn’t. “Out of context” implies that certain words are selected in such a way as to give an impresion that the speaker is saying something different from what he actually said. That is not the case here. The speaker said and meant exactly what he was represented as having said and meant. The previous conversation leading up to that statement does not alter anything about it’s meaning or intent. It was not taken out of context. it was given with _full_ context. point taken. That is correct, there was no misrepresentation of meaning. I think the point being made was that it may be understandable that since it was in the last few seconds of a discussion about something else it may be understandable that they didn’t name Alaweed or be more specific about his finances and his connection to Newscorp. And thats a yeah, just maybe. They had time to name the foundation and referred to him as “the guy” who offered 10 million dollars after 9/11 so they really had plenty of time to name him specifically. They make a passing reference to terrorist funding to create a negative association with Rauf but took no time to name even one specifically. It’s seems equally or more likely that it’s all part of a familiar dishonest pattern for Fox and friends. We’ll see if Fox follows it up with some real information. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/75 "2010-08-25T02:53:29Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Indeed. “The Imam and his wife have something shady going on, what do we really know about them? After all, the mosque is being funded by this shady guy with shady dealings.” If we accept that financial dealings with Shady Guy is evidence of shadyness as Fox and Friends claims, then given that the shady guy has dealings with Fox too, our only recourse is to presume Fox is shady too. Which was exactly the point Jon was making about how foolish and irresponsible it is to play the guilt by hardly any association game. I love the part about watching Fox support terrorism so the patriotic thing to do is not watch Fox. If Alaweed is supporting radical Madrasahs as they claimed then watching Fox does indeed generate money for radical Muslims as does drinking Pepsi and buying Apple products. The tragic reality is that although people love to argue about it they probably aren’t willing to give up Pepsi to help fight terrorism. Some sacrifices are just too great. too cynical? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/76 "2010-08-25T03:03:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > the few seconds at the end. The overall discussion was not really about Alaweed and his funding. > > That doesn’t mean it was taken out of context. It wasn’t. “Out of context” implies that certain words are selected in such a way as to give an impresion that the speaker is saying something different from what he actually said. That is not the case here. The speaker said and meant exactly what he was represented as having said and meant. The previous conversation leading up to that statement does not alter anything about it’s meaning or intent. It was not taken out of context. it was given with _full_ context. Stewart made it seem like the segment was about Alaweed, hence the “big deal” about not giving more info about him. Fact is, that was a small part of the larger segment that was about what the Imam’s wife said on a Sunday talk show. It doesn’t seem odd that a picture or name wasn’t given if you watch the whole thing, because most of the segment, and the main thrust of the discussion was not about him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/77 "2010-08-25T05:37:15Z")
Well, they say this cat Alweed is a baaaaad martyr-funder…(Shut your mouth!)… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/78 "2010-08-25T05:40:38Z")
I’m just talkin’ 'bout Al-Waleed. Do you really have to give the terrorists another reason, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/79 "2010-08-25T08:26:01Z")
I’d also be curious to know what Fox’s idea of a ‘Radical Madrassa’ actually is. Maybe it’s a Madrassa that teaches tolerance and acceptance of gay marriage? This whole argument about the specifics of the who-owns-shares in whom ignores the fact that they actually have 0 evidence for anything they claimed as fact in that segment. It was all insinuation and allegation without giving the viewer a single piece of credible information to back up their claims. It’s despicable, and I’m glad that in the UK you wouldn’t be able to get away with that sort of bullshit on public airwaves. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/80 "2010-08-25T11:36:24Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > I’d also be curious to know what Fox’s idea of a ‘Radical Madrassa’ actually is. Maybe it’s a Madrassa that teaches tolerance and acceptance of gay marriage? > > This whole argument about the specifics of the who-owns-shares in whom ignores the fact that they actually have 0 evidence for anything they claimed as fact in that segment. It was all insinuation and allegation without giving the viewer a single piece of credible information to back up their claims. It’s despicable, and I’m glad that in the UK you wouldn’t be able to get away with that sort of bullshit on public airwaves. I read another post that said something like this. Can you explain why that’s true? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256.md?page=5)