# Fox News deliberately destroying America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256 "2010-08-24T05:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/81 "2010-08-25T12:00:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > That doesn’t mean it was taken out of context. It wasn’t. “Out of context” implies that certain words are selected in such a way as to give an impresion that the speaker is saying something different from what he actually said. That is not the case here. The speaker said and meant exactly what he was represented as having said and meant. The previous conversation leading up to that statement does not alter anything about it’s meaning or intent. It was not taken out of context. it was given with _full_ context. > > Stewart made it seem like the segment was about Alaweed, hence the “big deal” about not giving more info about him. Fact is, that was a small part of the larger segment that was about what the Imam’s wife said on a Sunday talk show. It doesn’t seem odd that a picture or name wasn’t given if you watch the whole thing, because most of the segment, and the main thrust of the discussion was not about him. Your outrage meter may be at zero, but your obfuscation valve is wide open. It’s simple: Did Fox suggest something nefarious about Rauf because of his financial ties to “this guy”? Yes. Is “this guy” also a part-owner of News Corp? Yes. That’s it. For giggles, though, the Daily Show added the coda of a photo of Senor and Perino’s boss, W, pallin’ around with “this guy,” and the coup de grace was a Moment of Zen with Neil Cavuto welcoming onto his Fox show his honored guest, “this guy”, and singing the praises of the Kingdom holding company. It’s not complicated, unless you try hard to make it so. Even then, the simplicity of it will undo your best efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/82 "2010-08-25T12:05:34Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Baboonanza](#): > > > > I’d also be curious to know what Fox’s idea of a ‘Radical Madrassa’ actually is. Maybe it’s a Madrassa that teaches tolerance and acceptance of gay marriage? > > > > This whole argument about the specifics of the who-owns-shares in whom ignores the fact that they actually have 0 evidence for anything they claimed as fact in that segment. It was all insinuation and allegation without giving the viewer a single piece of credible information to back up their claims. It’s despicable, and I’m glad that in the UK you wouldn’t be able to get away with that sort of bullshit on public airwaves. > > I read another post that said something like this. Can you explain why that’s true? Why what’s true? That you couldn’t get away with this sort of thing in the UK? You probably could, especially in the tabloid print media, but there is a much stronger culture of oppositional (to the point of combativeness, in the case of Messrs Paxman and Humphries) journalism in the UK than there is in the US. One can often see a guest on news shows such as _Newsnight_ being challenged about their positions, only to have the interview turn to a different guest holding opposing views and challenge them on their position. I can’t remember the last time I saw something like that on US television. This may or may not be linked to the level of challenge that occurs within Parliament itself; MPs making ridiculous statements are far more likely to be called on it by their peers on the opposite benches than occurs in the mindless blathermill that is the US Congress, and of course Prime Minister Questions require the PM to stand up and face questioning from the other party leaders within Parliament. Even considering the usual rhetorical evasions and equivocations it does support the idea of a certain level of accountability for one’s positions. Note: I don’t watch Sky News, which is News Corps’ UK news channel, enough to compare it to FoxNews, although from what I’ve seen it is nowhere near as heavyhandedly biased as its American counterpart. I do recommend to anyone researching this that they check out the exchange between Sky’s Adam Boulton and Labour political advisor/spin doctor/pitbull Alastair Campbell during the last UK election. [Hilarious.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gkHwU4DRA8) ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/83 "2010-08-25T12:31:54Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > IMO it says, “We think you are such idiots that you will swallow shit no matter how obvious it is” Bingo. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/84 "2010-08-25T12:43:18Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > > [@Baboonanza](#): > > > > I’d also be curious to know what Fox’s idea of a ‘Radical Madrassa’ actually is. Maybe it’s a Madrassa that teaches tolerance and acceptance of gay marriage? > > > > This whole argument about the specifics of the who-owns-shares in whom ignores the fact that they actually have 0 evidence for anything they claimed as fact in that segment. It was all insinuation and allegation without giving the viewer a single piece of credible information to back up their claims. It’s despicable, and I’m glad that in the UK you wouldn’t be able to get away with that sort of bullshit on public airwaves. > > I read another post that said something like this. Can you explain why that’s true? You mean the bit about not being able to get away with it in the UK? I would refer you to the Ofcom code of conduct. There are several portions which would catch Fox News out in the UK but this specific sub-section would cause problems for that segment IMO: > [@](#): > > Opportunity to contribute and proper consideration of facts > > \*\*7.9 Before broadcasting a factual programme, including programmes examining past events, broadcasters should take reasonable care to satisfy themselves that: > > ``` > * material facts have not been presented, disregarded or omitted in a way that is unfair to an individual or organisation; and > * anyone whose omission could be unfair to an individual or organisation has been offered an opportunity to contribute.** > > ``` > > 7.10 Programmes such as dramas and factually-based dramas should not portray facts, events, individuals or organisations in a way which is unfair to an individual or organisation. > \*\* > 7.11 If a programme alleges wrongdoing or incompetence or makes other significant allegations, those concerned should normally be given an appropriate and timely opportunity to respond.\*\* > > 7.12 Where a person approached to contribute to a programme chooses to make no comment or refuses to appear in a broadcast, the broadcast should make clear that the individual concerned has chosen not to appear and should give their explanation if it would be unfair not to do so > > 7.13 Where it is appropriate to represent the views of a person or organisation that is not participating in the programme, this must be done in a fair manner. (bolding mine) The constant branding of the Mosque as a ‘terrorist training camp’ and other such groundless allegations are constantly promoted as fact and Fox make no effort either to verify their facts or to seek appropriate comments from those they are making the allegations against. There is never any language to make it clear to the viewer that what they say is merely an allegation, conjecture or opinion. In the UK both the Mosque and the Prince would have extremely strong grounds for a complaint to Ofcom about unfair representation. Ofcom have the power to levy monetary fines and theoretically to remove the broadcasters license. Unlike the Press Complaints Commission code of conduct (which covers newspapers) these rules are almost always followed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/85 "2010-08-25T13:16:57Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s simple: Did Fox suggest something nefarious about Rauf because of his financial ties to “this guy”? Yes. > > Is “this guy” also a part-owner of News Corp? Yes. > > That’s it. Well, you don’t have to tell that to me. Tell that to the multiple posters in this thread who keep harping on the fact that they didn’t mention his name or show his picture. I’m just noting that it really isn’t particularly odd if you watch the entire segment. Now, I don’t think this guy, Senor, is a credible witness. As noted by myself and others, he made some pretty detailed accusations (many damning) about the history of this MCC without one shred of evidence. And there was no one on the show to rebut anything he said. It was a set-up piece that was agenda driven. Not something that could credibly be called “reporting”. I don’t know if they consider “Fox and Friends” to be news or analysis, but it ain’t news, if this is the way they run it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/86 "2010-08-25T13:43:20Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > You mean the bit about not being able to get away with it in the UK? I would refer you to the Ofcom code of conduct. There are several portions which would catch Fox News out in the UK but this specific sub-section would cause problems for that segment IMO: > > > [@](#): > > > > Opportunity to contribute and proper consideration of facts > > > > \*\*7.9 Before broadcasting a factual programme, including programmes examining past events, broadcasters should take reasonable care to satisfy themselves that: > > > > ``` > > * material facts have not been presented, disregarded or omitted in a way that is unfair to an individual or organisation; and > > * anyone whose omission could be unfair to an individual or organisation has been offered an opportunity to contribute.** > > > > ``` > > > > 7.10 Programmes such as dramas and factually-based dramas should not portray facts, events, individuals or organisations in a way which is unfair to an individual or organisation. > > \*\* > > 7.11 If a programme alleges wrongdoing or incompetence or makes other significant allegations, those concerned should normally be given an appropriate and timely opportunity to respond.\*\* > > > > 7.12 Where a person approached to contribute to a programme chooses to make no comment or refuses to appear in a broadcast, the broadcast should make clear that the individual concerned has chosen not to appear and should give their explanation if it would be unfair not to do so > > > > 7.13 Where it is appropriate to represent the views of a person or organisation that is not participating in the programme, this must be done in a fair manner. > > (bolding mine) > The constant branding of the Mosque as a ‘terrorist training camp’ and other such groundless allegations are constantly promoted as fact and Fox make no effort either to verify their facts or to seek appropriate comments from those they are making the allegations against. There is never any language to make it clear to the viewer that what they say is merely an allegation, conjecture or opinion. > > In the UK both the Mosque and the Prince would have extremely strong grounds for a complaint to Ofcom about unfair representation. Ofcom have the power to levy monetary fines and theoretically to remove the broadcasters license. Unlike the Press Complaints Commission code of conduct (which covers newspapers) these rules are almost always followed. Thank you. That is what I meant. I’ve been concerned for sometime that it seems so easy for media companies to spread falsehoods by exploiting the “opinion piece” aspect of 24 hour channels. There seems to be no accountability and they can throw out any garbage they want as a suggestion, and make some vague reference and innuendo , while the public eagerly swallows it. I was hoping the public itself would be disgusted by this behavior and reject the practice but that hasn’t happened. I wouldn’t be adverse to some similar regulations that force media companies to maintain some level of responsible honesty even on opinion shows, or to distinctly seperate the opinion pieces from the factual. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/87 "2010-08-25T13:56:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It was a set-up piece that was agenda driven. Not something that could credibly be called “reporting”. I don’t know if they consider “Fox and Friends” to be news or analysis, but it ain’t news, if this is the way they run it. It’s far to typical for much of Fox news channel. Allegations without evidence, tenuous associations, and a distinct lack of balance when examining a person or issue. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/88 "2010-08-25T18:59:42Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Let’s say, hypothetically, that a foundation based in Saudi Arabia has pledged to pay part of the cost of building a proposed Islamic commmunity center in New York City. What evil is being done, exactly? Please be specific. In reality, likely none. But clearly, Fox News is making up their own 'verse, and so for purposes of this discussion, we’re indulging them and playing by their own, non-reality-based world. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > I just don’t get how this building is in any way shape or form , a slap in the face to anyone, simply because they are American Muslims. Me neither. As someone on FARK (of all places) put it, “Why didn’t black people just stay at the back of the bus? They had to know it’d upset white people!” ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/89 "2010-08-25T23:31:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Fox News deliberately destroying America I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/90 "2010-08-25T23:34:47Z")
If they destroy America as good as they report news, the Golden Age may be upon us. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/91 "2010-08-26T02:43:08Z")
Just thought I’d post up highlights of Fox’s latest [opinion piece](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/25/michael-goodwin-ground-zero-mosque-bloomberg-ramadan-dinner-paterson-dolan/). A whole lotta accusation with precisely nothing to support it. > [@Michael Goodwin (Fox)](#): > > Even if one charitably assumes they were caught off guard by the opponents, their hard-hearted determination to press on raises serious suspicions about their motives. > [@](#): > > His wife, Daisy Khan, even warned that “extremists” are watching the battle, a not-so-subtle suggestion that New York would be attacked again if developers don’t get their way. > [@](#): > > The developers’ provocation could have been seen as a mistake, easily correctable by moving to another site. Instead, their cold insistence on staying put reveals an unappealing level of inconsideration, even hostility. > By digging in, they are passing up a chance to build the very bridge they claimed they wanted while reinforcing the darkest concerns about why they picked this site. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/92 "2010-08-26T02:58:09Z")
Didn’t Neitzche say something about when you stare into the Abyss, you see ads trying to sell you gold? ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/93 "2010-08-26T03:01:23Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > A pox on him and his family. I know his mum and admire her greatly, she is a true lady and is one of the biggest supporters of charity and the arts in Australia. Rupert might be an evil despot bent on ruling the world but his mum is just a nice old [rich] lady. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > And why is this Murdoch immigrant from Australia always propagandizing America. Isn’t it a bit sinister? LOL cultural imperialism returned! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/94 "2010-08-26T03:01:26Z")
> [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](#): > > Me neither. As someone on FARK (of all places) put it, “Why didn’t black people just stay at the back of the bus? They had to know it’d upset white people!” Wow! Now that’s an analogy I like. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/95 "2010-08-26T03:27:25Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Just thought I’d post up highlights of Fox’s latest [opinion piece](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/25/michael-goodwin-ground-zero-mosque-bloomberg-ramadan-dinner-paterson-dolan/). > > A whole lotta accusation with precisely nothing to support it. > > > [@Michael Goodwin (Fox)](#): > > > > Even if one charitably assumes they were caught off guard by the opponents, their hard-hearted determination to press on raises serious suspicions about their motives. > > > [@](#): > > > > The developers’ provocation could have been seen as a mistake, easily correctable by moving to another site. Instead, their cold insistence on staying put reveals an unappealing level of inconsideration, even hostility. > > By digging in, they are passing up a chance to build the very bridge they claimed they wanted while reinforcing the darkest concerns about why they picked this site. What utter bullshit. No talk in real numbers about the what they have invested and what it would cost them to move. I like this > [@](#): > > His wife, Daisy Khan, even warned that “extremists” are watching the battle, a not-so-subtle suggestion that New York would be attacked again if developers don’t get their way. Her logic is frightening. yeah pal, and yours is virtually non existent. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/96 "2010-08-26T03:34:08Z")
_Cogitophobia_.(N), the morbid fear of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/97 "2010-08-26T03:53:42Z")
Aaaaauuuugggghhhh! Big Latin word. Get it off me! Get it off me! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/98 "2010-08-26T08:27:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > … at first was disposed to say that Fox News might be destroying America but not deliberately because they believe … the folks at Fox News … Their … they are … they … They … with their lies. …their lying … they … Gad, what a bunch of fool, liars and scumbags. They are people who want to keep their paycheck, especially in this economy. _Someone’s_ got to clean the sewers, if the wage is high enough; someone has to do the mortuary jobs; illegal immigrants come in to do stoop farm labor: Murdoch might even find some illegal aliens to blather bullshit if all Americans refuse to do his work! The problem isn’t the Fox News staff. The problem is allowing so much power to a single man, who, at the risk of hyperbole, reminds one of a villain bent on world domination from a James Bond movie. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/99 "2010-08-26T08:49:47Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > > [@Baboonanza](#): > > > > A pox on him and his family. > > I know his mum and admire her greatly, she is a true lady and is one of the biggest supporters of charity and the arts in Australia. > > Rupert might be an evil despot bent on ruling the world but his mum is just a nice old [rich] lady. Fair enough. I was really thinking of his children, specifically James Murdoch who is chairman (I think) of Sky in the UK. He is as desipicable as his old man but mainly I hate him for his hostile stance towards the BBC. If James had his way you wouldn’t be able to watch TV without paying Sky a subscription, and even then you’d have to sit through 10 minutes of ads every half-hour. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256/100 "2010-08-26T10:25:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Didn’t Neitzche say something about when you stare into the Abyss, you see ads trying to sell you gold? Nah, he said God is dead and it’s Obama’s fault. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fox-news-deliberately-destroying-america/551256.md?page=6)