# FoxNews Sues Al Franken: More Than Trademark Infringement? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587 "2003-08-12T05:16:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/81 "2003-08-14T22:27:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*[The origins of Philadelphia Cream Cheese](http://www.kraft.com/archives/brands/brands_cream.html) are only tenuously related to the city: > > The lack of an actual connection to the city makes the claim to the trademark even stronger, though, doesn’t it? \*\* Eh, yes and no. It kind of depends on the nature of the product, and there are also issues of misdescriptiveness. Philadelphia Cream Cheese might, at one point, have been an example of misdescriptiveness if the story you cite above is accurate (and no reason Kraft would lie about it). Geographic terms are an interesting conundrum, and actually one of the fertile areas in international trade disputes. French winemaking interests, for example, have strenuously lobbied with varying degrees of success that terms like “champagne” and “chardonnay” can only be used in connection with French products, and have been among the strongest lobbying for greater protection of these terms. The NAFTA agreement also did some funky things to geographic terms by making geographically misdescriptive terms unregisterable unless they had acquired distinctiveness prior to the effective date of NAFTA. But, back to the story. In the case of well-known place names (like “Philadelphia”) there is a presumption that if you use the name, it’s either descriptive of the origin of the product (if it comes from there) or misdescriptive of the origin of the product (if it does not). The idea being that well-known places are well-known and would be perceived first and initially as an indication of the geographic source of the product, rather than a particular merchant’s product. So it doesn’t make the trademark any more distinctive if the place and product are unconnected. In fact, if they are, it can be as absolute a bar to legal protection as genericness. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/82 "2003-08-14T23:02:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by squeegee \* > \*\ ***Dewey** , you’re quite correct. If a trademark isn’t defended, the holder may lose it. > > Plus, in some cases widespread, non-infringing use of a trademark may dilute it such that it can be rendered invalid. Witness [aerobics, aspirin, cellophane, cola, corn flakes, escalator, granola, hoagie, kerosene, kewpie doll, lanolin, linoleum, nylon, pacemaker, raisin bran, shredded wheat, super glue, thermos, touch-tone, trampoline, yo-yo and zipper](http://www.editpros.com/news0301.html).\*\* That’s just the tip of the iceberg – if we’d gotten trademark law into place a few centuries earlier, literally millions of words could be properly owned as God intended, rather than having to float around the common domain being mouthed by any grubby-tongued commoner who takes a notion to do so. Pants, hat, dog, cuticle, foliage, prostate, pipe, mild humidity, iron, short circuit, earlobe, abbreviate, jumping bean, fungus, etc. The list goes on and on. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/83 "2003-08-14T23:57:41Z")
Hey! I just saw the title to Al Franken’s new book. It looks like he’s now a political pundit for the Fox News Channel! Wow. Talk about balanced! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/84 "2003-08-15T00:39:30Z")
> [@](#): > > **jeevmon** : Geographic terms are an interesting conundrum, and actually one of the fertile areas in international trade disputes. [Worst case of geographic misdescription _ever_.](http://dk.biz.yahoo.com/030627/49/2w9g6.html) Kafka would weep. ---
**Author:** ![G-RAY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d9b06d/32.png) [@G-RAY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-RAY)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/85 "2003-08-15T03:35:13Z")
I think that Al was not satisfied with the 80s being the “Al Frankin Decade” and has perhaps decided to make this the" Al Frankinn Century". ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/86 "2003-08-15T13:26:15Z")
Thanks for the explanation, **jeevmon**. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/87 "2003-08-15T22:28:42Z")
> [@](#): > > May the best poo-poo prevail I believe the correct term is _ **preponderance of poo-poo** _ This is a civil suit, remember! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/88 "2003-08-15T22:43:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jello \* > \*\*According to [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com), Franken’s book is #1 in the Movers and Shakers section today… > > Up 10,575%. > > Wow. > > Guess who he has to thank for that one? \*\* They sold 100 books today, instead of the 1 yesterday??? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/89 "2003-08-16T01:25:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PhiloVance \* > \*\*They sold 100 books today, instead of the 1 yesterday??? 😉 \*\* Considering that it’s currently #3 on their bestseller list, for Amazon’s sake I hope they’ve sold more than 100 copies. It’s just barely possible that Al Franken is more popular than you’d like to think. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![threeorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/90 "2003-08-16T13:26:37Z")
_DanielWithrow wrote:_ > [@](#): > > It’s just barely possible that Al Franken is more popular than you’d like to think. The booming book sales may be as much a reflection of widespread antipathy toward Fox News as it is for Franken’s popularity. There are a lot of people who believe that the mainstream news media are not “fair and balanced” at all, but ideologically biased toward the left or right. Among those who perceive a conservative bias, Fox is usually cited as the worst offender. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/91 "2003-08-22T22:01:31Z")
Oh, this is a happy day. [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/22/fox.franken/index.html) is reporting that Fox’s motion for an injunction was denied. And to those who said that I was a “chump” who didn’t know what I was talking about when it came to trademark law, may I just say NEENER, with a healthy dollop of “You are a :wally .” Buh-bye now. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/92 "2003-08-22T22:42:38Z")
Had to check out [what FoxNews.com had to say about this](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95484,00.html). I was somewhat disappointed that they actually took a “Fair and Balanced” approach to it: > [@](#): > > In addition to denying the injunction, the judge took direct aim at Fox for bringing the case. > “It is ironic that a media company, which should be protecting the First Amendment, is seeking to undermine it,” Chin said. > The judge also said the “Fair and Balanced” trademark itself is weak, considering those words are used so frequently “in the context of the public marketplace.” My favourite bit: > [@](#): > > “In addition to thanking my own lawyers,” Franken said, “I’d like to thank _Fox’s_ lawyers for filing one of the stupidest briefs I’ve ever seen in my life.” Oh, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/93 "2003-08-22T23:36:59Z")
Many a truth is spoke in jest. Franken does political satire intentionally - Don’t know if Fox is aware. Fox pretty much reports funny the news. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/94 "2003-08-23T00:27:54Z")
* * * ## “There are hard cases and there are easy cases,” the judge said. “This is an easy case. This case is wholly without merit, both factually and legally.” Not that we needed to be told… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/95 "2003-08-23T03:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > if we’d gotten trademark law into place a few centuries earlier, literally millions of words could be properly owned as God intended, rather than having to float around the common domain being mouthed by any grubby-tongued commoner who takes a notion to do so. You said a mouthful, Giraffe! (But, please, haul the tongue back in now.) Just think how hard poor put-upon Ralph Lauren had to fight to win control over “POLO”. To take it away from that silly magazine being published by the governing body for the sport of polo in this country. What nerve! ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/96 "2003-08-23T04:09:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > \*\*Had to check out [what FoxNews.com had to say about this](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95484,00.html). > > I was somewhat disappointed that they actually took a “Fair and Balanced” approach to it:\*\* Well, just to be "Fair and Balanced"TM (So, sue me, Fox), that wasn’t Fox’s take on it at all. It just ran the Associated Press story everybody else will run. Guess they couldn’t trust themselves to present a "Fair and Balanced"TM account of the judge’s decision. [hijack]Kudos to the AP reporter who included the information about Al “Grandpa Munster” Lewis.[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/97 "2003-08-23T16:53:10Z")
I had a fair and balanced breakfast. The judge tossed it out with prejudice, even ridiculed the lawsuit? I’m not shocked. Tell me about the US legal system now? Well, sometimes it does actually work quickly. Fox could appeal – if they’re mad as hatters. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/98 "2003-08-23T17:03:24Z")
Wonder if Fox commentators will include this example whne they call out for tort reform and wail about ‘obviously’ meritless lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/99 "2003-08-23T17:30:46Z")
Franken is clearly baiting Fox News and the conservatives. Amazing how they go for the sparkly lure every time. Good for Franken, but also kind of like going hunting at the zoo. ---
**Author:** ![tarfu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tarfu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarfu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587/100 "2003-08-24T15:10:23Z")
**Philster** , any comments??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foxnews-sues-al-franken-more-than-trademark-infringement/194587.md?page=6)