# Fracking = Worse Than Coal **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 31, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fracking-worse-than-coal/672744 "2013-10-31T12:31:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 57
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fracking-worse-than-coal/672744/57 "2013-11-04T02:58:06Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > To be fair, jzj1 said “energy sources” not “energy production”. I assume jzj1 was referring to the total potential capacity of such production, not current capacity. Yeah, I suppose if we created Dyson sphere, we could capture enough solar energy to send someone to Alpha Centauri using laser propulsion but right now it is not economically feasible to generate any significant portion of our power from renewables, right? Maybe someday, but not now and this juvenile insistence that we either torpedo our economy or live more like the Amish is not productive at all. I just saw a 16 year old kid that discovered how to detect cancer for $0.03. Maybe someone will make a breakthrough and figure out how to make dilithium anti-matter reactors or something but lets not all sit in sackcloth waiting for that to happen. > [@Telemarketing: how do you react?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-how-do-you-react/74181/100): > > it’s completely false that in general biomass uses more energy as input than it pulls back out as ethanol. > … > Sugarcane is one of the better ratios, but even corn is still a net positive, producing 1.3 units of energy for every 1 unit input. WHAT!?!?!!! Seeriously?!!! WTF!!! Why are we even bothering with this stuff? I’d rather have cheap corn for the barbecue and livestock feed than get a 30% return on energy used. This is fucking outrageous, I’d rather put a fucking solar panel on the hood of my car. > [@oogabooga](#): > > 1. Nuclear power isn’t renewable - it uses a finite resource and creates a waste product, something my country is profiting from significantly by being paid to bury it in our vast desert (thanks for the business). It’ll be the same fossil fuel debacle all over again in 10 millennia or so. This misnomer must stop now. We went from wood to coal to oil to gas in under 200 years. Why wouldn’t we move on to something else besides nuclear in 10,000 years? > [@](#): > > 1. Again, if you can build one nuclear plant, you can build 10 million. Like all advanced technology, it costs alot to make. France, for example, very nearly exclusively powers itself with nuclear plants. They also power places like Austria through their grid. > [@](#): > > The thing that seems to be lost on everyone is that proper renewable power costs almost nothing to run. Only maintenance. Are you under the impression that solar panels have an infinite useful life? I think the ones we have today only last about 15 years. So once you amortize the cost of the panels over that time, solar is waaaay more expensive than gas/coal/nuclear. I’m not sure what the deal is with wind but I don’t think they’re made of unobtainium either. > [@EmAnJ](#): > > Half of Northern Germany’s power comes from renewables. They started this transition 25 years ago and admit it’s been tough, but are successfully moving to decentralized power generation (many of the windmills are owned by rural residents, who are making money off of them) and renewable energies. Germany has HUGE subsidies for this stuff. The actual cost of their electricity is far higher than ours. And the rural windmill farmers wouldn’t make a dime without those subsidies. > [@](#): > > So yes, it’s possible to move to renewables. It would be very difficult, and our social norms would have to significantly change (which happened pretty quickly in Northern Germany, interestingly), but it’s possible. Not on an economic basis it isn’t. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fracking-worse-than-coal/672744)._