# Fragile suspensions in modern front-wheel-drive cars **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232 "2015-08-19T01:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/1 "2015-08-19T01:01:03Z")
The second car I ever owned was an old (well, it was 17 years old when I bought it) 1972 Oldsmobile Toronado. One of the first, if not _the_ first, American production front-wheel-drive models. That car had engine problems, but everything else about that car was rock-solid. Every car I’ve owned since then (1986 Chevrolet Cavalier, 1989 Honda Accord, 1993 Mercury Topaz, 1999 Ford Contour, and my current car, a 2001 Ford Taurus) has also had front-wheel-drive, and every one of them, except for the Honda, has had completely effed-up suspension (I got them all “used”). Like, every single little bump in the road produces an insane rattle from the front suspension because something is broken. Even my current car, the Taurus, which I literally acquired from a “little old lady” (a woman from my church who is several years older than my 71-year-old mother). Rattle, rattle, rattle. What is the deal with the front suspensions on American-made FWD cars? What keeps breaking? ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/2 "2015-08-19T01:38:12Z")
The thing all of your problem cars have in common are [MacPherson struts.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacPherson_strut) It’s not really an American FWD thing but just a FWD thing. The vast majority of transverse (engine in sideways) FWD cars use them because they allow for a wide engine compartment, but also just because they’re cheap and work well. The Toronado had the engine in longitudinally and had a suspension not too different from the usual RWD land barges of the day. With the Accord, Honda used double wishbone suspensions during the 80’s and 90’s, but that was _very_ unusual for small economy cars (and they switched to MacPherson into the 2000’s.) Did you ever change the struts on any of your cars? There’s obviously nothing inherently wrong with MacPherson struts considering that they’re used in the vast majority of cars these days. They do tend to transmit more road vibration to the body of the car as they go bad though, so if you bought all these cars used and never changed them maybe they all just needed new struts. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/3 "2015-08-19T02:36:39Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Did you ever change the struts on any of your cars? There’s obviously nothing inherently wrong with MacPherson struts considering that they’re used in the vast majority of cars these days. They do tend to transmit more road vibration to the body of the car as they go bad though, so if you bought all these cars used and never changed them maybe they all just needed new struts. I never had any of these cars long enough to change the struts. But this Taurus is the first one I’ve had that didn’t already have 14 things wrong with it, so I’m going to take it to Les Schwab and have them fix one wheel at a time, as I can afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/4 "2015-08-19T02:40:46Z")
I’ll also criticize my hometown … they religiously repave the “main” streets, but completely ignore the cross streets, to the point that driving down the cross streets may as well be pothole heaven. Some of these cross streets haven’t been repaved in 30 years, or even longer. It’s gotten to the point that I drive out of my way to avoid some terrible streets. ---
**Author:** ![Toy\_varen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Toy\_varen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toy_varen)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/5 "2015-08-19T02:49:56Z")
This happened to my old car. The mechanic said that the rubber things that old the grease were torn because cars are not meant to be turned all the way until the steering wheel stops. I can’t recall exactly what he said but he said the most you should turn the wheel is like 2 complete rotations. The torn rubber thingy’s seem to be a chronic issue with front wheel drive cars. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/6 "2015-08-19T03:03:14Z")
A common cause of noise over bumps is worn or broken stabilizer (anti-sway) bar links. This is not related to front wheel drive, but like front wheel drive has become more prevalent over the last few decades. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/7 "2015-08-19T05:17:14Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > The second car I ever owned was an old (well, it was 17 years old when I bought it) 1972 Oldsmobile Toronado. One of the first, if not _the_ first, American production front-wheel-drive models. That car had engine problems, but everything else about that car was rock-solid. > > Every car I’ve owned since then (1986 Chevrolet Cavalier, 1989 Honda Accord, 1993 Mercury Topaz, 1999 Ford Contour, and my current car, a 2001 Ford Taurus) has also had front-wheel-drive, and every one of them, except for the Honda, has had completely effed-up suspension (I got them all “used”). Like, every single little bump in the road produces an insane rattle from the front suspension because something is broken. > > Even my current car, the Taurus, which I literally acquired from a “little old lady” (a woman from my church who is several years older than my 71-year-old mother). Rattle, rattle, rattle. > > What is the deal with the front suspensions on American-made FWD cars? What keeps breaking? Short answer is that any American car made before the 80s or so was built like a tank. Nobody gave a shit about gas mileage so weight was not a hindrance. The frame, chassis, suspension etc. were all built simple & strong, like a box-girder bridge. Not so much to be durable in and of themselves, but because they had to support the excessive weight of the entire car in general. And early US front wheel drive cars were just a crappy mix of old & new designs. Fuel economy has seen a huge decrease in vehicle weight, so consequently suspensions are much lighter-duty in general. But at the same time cars as a whole are now made to last much longer, so suspension parts routinely wear out long before the whole car does. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/8 "2015-08-19T05:30:41Z")
Another possibility is that the cap of the mcpherson strut bends if it impacts, eg over a 5 inch sized bump … The Olds had rather solid bars and plates , made from proper steel, to hold the supsension, while the modern car just has some soft steel cup… This is meant to make it easy to fix, but it means it has to be fixed more often. The reason I think it is this is that the worn out strut will just cause it to wobble , like front to back on an undulating surface (where heavy vehicles cause a row of bumps… your car starts to wobble front to back in the same way the truck does…) But the bent cap will cause the front suspension to have lots of free play. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/9 "2015-08-19T05:43:34Z")
The Olds had double wishbone front suspension for the same reason pickup trucks have double wishbone front suspension - that’s just how body-on-frame vehicles are suspended, generally, with both the upper and lower wishbones mounted to the ladder frame. Back in the old days when men were men, etc. Macpherson struts don’t really work because where would you attach the top of the strut? Technically doable but mostly pointless which is why Macpherson struts are generally only used on monocoque vehicles, and the former became more prevalent as the latter became more prevalent. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/10 "2015-08-19T14:12:33Z")
Of you have suspension issues, fix it asap or you’ll wear out your tires and front end parts fast. Your mechanic will probably tell you not to fix one at a time. I had a series of cars in the 80s and 90s that seemed to always be needing new shocks. My 2000 Chrysler minivan is unbelievably still on its first set, after 160k miles. Perhaps part of it is that I don’t drive fast (I try to maximize fuel economy) and I avoid potholes like the plague. Maybe I did get new shocks once – it seems I must have. But it’s certainly a change from needing to do them every 2 or 3 years. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/11 "2015-08-19T14:34:49Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > A common cause of noise over bumps is worn or broken stabilizer (anti-sway) bar links. This is not related to front wheel drive, but like front wheel drive has become more prevalent over the last few decades. Came here to say this! Most of the sway bar end links in the front are quite long on FWD cars, and only take a few good potholes to break. That’s when you get the intermittent clunk from the front. Replacement end links ([like the Moog linked here](http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-k80066)) are way beefier than the stock ones. All of my replacement links have survived Flint MI quality roads for years with only greasing. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/12 "2015-08-19T14:50:05Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Short answer is that any American car made before the 80s or so was built like a tank. Nobody gave a shit about gas mileage so weight was not a hindrance. The frame, chassis, suspension etc. were all built simple & strong, like a box-girder bridge. (snip) Massive over-generalization which borders on incorrect. Most cars switched to unibody construction [in the 1960’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body-on-frame#History) and by the 1970’s cars with a frame were the rare exception. Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth [switched all of their models to unibody in 1960-61](http://www.allpar.com/fix/body/unit-body.html)(save for the Imperial model). Also, saying that no one cared about fuel economy before the 1980’s is incorrect. There were multiple spikes in gas prices (the 1973 and 1979 oil crises come to mind), not to mention rationing. This had myriad knock-on effects in the car industry, like the move to smaller cars, the mainstream acceptance of Japanese sub-compacts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/13 "2015-08-19T14:59:21Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Of you have suspension issues, fix it asap or you’ll wear out your tires and front end parts fast. Your mechanic will probably tell you not to fix one at a time. > > I had a series of cars in the 80s and 90s that seemed to always be needing new shocks. My 2000 Chrysler minivan is unbelievably still on its first set, after 160k miles. Perhaps part of it is that I don’t drive fast (I try to maximize fuel economy) and I avoid potholes like the plague. > > Maybe I did get new shocks once – it seems I must have. But it’s certainly a change from needing to do them every 2 or 3 years. You’ll only damage your tires if the broken part is affecting suspension geometry. Worn shocks (as you mention) and broken sway bar end links (as **Gary T** and I mention) won’t affect geometry, having zero effect on tire wear. ---
**Author:** ![Nefario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/59ef9b/32.png) [@Nefario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefario)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/14 "2015-08-19T15:14:28Z")
Further clarification - the 60’s Toranado suspension was so swaddled on rubber bushings and mounts you couldn’t hear or feel any looseness in its sponginess. Agree that sway bar end links can wear, break, or rattle but don’t affect the overall geometry or durability. They’re intended to make suspension feel more responsive. In some designs they’re almost consumable parts. MacPherson strut suspension is not inherently weaker or fragile but depends on the overall design. You may feel normal wear and damage that were “absorbed” by the old rubber bushing designs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/15 "2015-08-19T16:17:17Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Fuel economy has seen a huge decrease in vehicle weight, so consequently suspensions are much lighter-duty in general. This is a bit of a myth. The 1970 Toronado weight 4400 pounds. A 2015 Taurus weighs 4300 pounds if fully equipped, despite being 10 inches shorter. All the dead weight that was dumped between 1970 and 1985 or so has been replaced by new weight, mostly safety equipment. If you are involved in an accident involving a Toronado and a Taurus, be in the Taurus. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/16 "2015-08-19T17:15:55Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > The thing all of your problem cars have in common are [MacPherson struts.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacPherson_strut) It’s not really an American FWD thing but just a FWD thing. The vast majority of transverse (engine in sideways) FWD cars use them because they allow for a wide engine compartment, but also just because they’re cheap and work well. The Toronado had the engine in longitudinally and had a suspension not too different from the usual RWD land barges of the day. With the Accord, Honda used double wishbone suspensions during the 80’s and 90’s, but that was _very_ unusual for small economy cars (and they switched to MacPherson into the 2000’s.) > > Did you ever change the struts on any of your cars? There’s obviously nothing inherently wrong with MacPherson struts considering that they’re used in the vast majority of cars these days. They do tend to transmit more road vibration to the body of the car as they go bad though, so if you bought all these cars used and never changed them maybe they all just needed new struts. If you want to cheaply fix the most likely cause of rattles in a Macpherson strut car just replace the upper bearing in the strut. You can do this yourself with a strut compressor but you may have to get an alignment . If you hear squeaking when not turning its probably sway bar bushings. If shocks are shot in the front and a tire is even slightly out of balance you can “cup” the tire which shows up as a scalloped look around the tire. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/17 "2015-08-19T18:01:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is a bit of a myth. The 1970 Toronado weight 4400 pounds. A 2015 Taurus weighs 4300 pounds if fully equipped, despite being 10 inches shorter. All the dead weight that was dumped between 1970 and 1985 or so has been replaced by new weight, mostly safety equipment. If you are involved in an accident involving a Toronado and a Taurus, be in the Taurus. ++ also… 1969 Mustang w/351 V8, ~3,300 lbs. 2015 Mustang GT, ~3,700 lbs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/18 "2015-08-19T18:15:45Z")
That’s a good one - and note that the 2015 model is an inch shorter at 107". ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/19 "2015-08-19T21:05:36Z")
> [@Toy\_varen](#): > > This happened to my old car. The mechanic said that the rubber things that old the grease were torn because cars are not meant to be turned all the way until the steering wheel stops. I can’t recall exactly what he said but he said the most you should turn the wheel is like 2 complete rotations. The torn rubber thingy’s seem to be a chronic issue with front wheel drive cars. Sounds like your mechanic was referring to torn CV axle boots. CV axles do wear out and are a pretty common cause of noise on front wheel drive vehicles, especially audible as a series of clicks when turning. The rubber boots help protect the axle by keeping grit out of the grease surrounding the joint. A torn boot lets grit in and grease out, hastening the death of the axle. They can get torn by any number of things, like road debris, dry rot, oil leaks degeading the rubber, tools, etc., but not by turning the wheel. The [boots](https://www.google.com/search?q=cv+axle+boot&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIkLaCqoS2xwIVC6oeCh3_zwEN) are designed like a bellows to allow for the wheels to turn. The boot bellows will comfortably flex much farther than the wheel can turn. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232/20 "2015-08-19T22:33:38Z")
Whether you are replacing struts, the CV joints, or other suspension pieces; do it in pairs for both sides. Second, get the reconditioned parts if available, much cheaper the brand new. Quality reconditioned parts through a reputable supplier to your installer that have a warranty. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fragile-suspensions-in-modern-front-wheel-drive-cars/728232.md?page=2)