# France and the cartoons of Mohammed; what's your take? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221 "2020-10-29T16:49:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/261 "2020-11-03T14:05:02Z")
_All_ moral systems really boil down to “What I like is good, what I don’t is bad”. That’s just _intellectual honesty_. The key there is “boil down to” - all you see is the distillation of my morality and you assume there’s no reasoning behind it. Well, I don’t have the inclination to disabuse you of such a ridiculous notion in this thread - start another about the rational underpinnings of morality and I’ll be happy to indulge you, though. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/262 "2020-11-03T14:06:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > anyone and everything that deserves it Like those millions of moderate Muslims… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/263 "2020-11-03T14:11:17Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > There is an Islamic tradition of not depicting Mohammed. _Islamic_ . Those are self-imposed and have no bearing on people who are not followers of the Islamic faith. > There is equally a western tradition of a satirical press and this is also self-imposed and that calls for lampooning and ridiculing and criticising of anyone and everything that deserves it. Again, this should have no bearing on those who do not subscribe to that way of thinking. No-one can or should force such people to produce satirical periodicals or transgressive art etc. > I see no way of fully reconciling those traditions other than by allowing free choice of which tradition to follow and sucking up what comes your way. This really has very little to do with Islam. It has to do with theocracy. Thousands of years ago, there were Jewish kingdoms in what is today Israel. If you went back in time and tried to show the wrong person offensive cartoons of Moses, I’m sure they’d execute you. Four hundred years ago, there were plenty of Christian theocracies in western Europe. Again, if you went back in time and showed the wrong person offensive cartoons of Jesus, they’d execute you as well. If there were such Christian or Jewish theocracies still around today, and people were emigrating from there to Europe, some proportion of those Jews and Christians would bring their theocratic ideology to their new homes, where it would be fundamentally incompatible with the modern western ideology. This would lead to violence. Now, only a tiny portion of Muslim immigrants have this ideology. It is important for us in the west to welcome Muslim immigrants who aren’t followers of this ideology, so that they don’t become radicalized by it (and also because its the right thing to do). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/264 "2020-11-03T14:12:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like those millions of moderate Muslims… . Millions of moderate Muslims aren’t the ones telling everyone else how they should live their lives. A few fundamentalist ones are. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/265 "2020-11-03T14:13:07Z")
Millions of moderate Muslims still follow the tradition of not depicting Muhammad, though, and are hence targeted by the “satire” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/266 "2020-11-03T14:14:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It is important for us in the west to welcome Muslim immigrants who aren’t followers of this ideology, … by publicly pissing all over their traditions, like nonrepresentation and modest dress… So welcoming. No cognitive dissonance in that post at all… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/267 "2020-11-03T14:15:25Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It is important for us in the west to welcome Muslim immigrants who aren’t followers of this ideology, so that they don’t become radicalized by it (and also because its the right thing to do). Welcome them with their very own, limited edition, signed and numbered, picture of Muhammad butt fucking a goat. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/268 "2020-11-03T14:19:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Millions of moderate Muslims still follow the tradition of not depicting Muhammad, though, and are hence targeted by the “satire” They are welcome to continue their tradition of not depicting Muhammed. They are NOT welcome to tell other people that they must also follow that same tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/269 "2020-11-03T14:22:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This really has very little to do with Islam. It has to do with theocracy. > > Thousands of years ago, there were Jewish kingdoms in what is today Israel. If you went back in time and tried to show the wrong person offensive cartoons of Moses, I’m sure they’d execute you. > > Four hundred years ago, there were plenty of Christian theocracies in western Europe. Again, if you went back in time and showed the wrong person offensive cartoons of Jesus, they’d execute you as well. Absolutely. Any comments and criticism directed to Islam now could be equally directed to the other religions at various points in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/270 "2020-11-03T14:22:51Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > It is important for us in the west to welcome Muslim immigrants who aren’t followers of this ideology, so that they don’t become radicalized by it (and also because its the right thing to do). > > Welcome them with their very own, limited edition, signed and numbered, picture of Muhammad butt fucking a goat. I agree that this is offensive, I don’t approve of it, but I don’t think it should be banned. I also think that Muslims aren’t going to be as integrated a part of our culture if we don’t treat them the same way that we treat Jews and Christians. And we mock both of those faiths (even if some Christians get very angry about this). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/271 "2020-11-03T14:23:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > They are NOT welcome You could have ended the sentence right here and it would convey the same message as the “satire” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/272 "2020-11-03T14:24:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And we mock both of those faiths …so, about that _Giftpilz_… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/273 "2020-11-03T14:24:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You could have ended the sentence right here and it would convey the same message as the “satire” Do you get this butthurt about the Book of Mormon? Is that also horribly offensive to a traditionally oppressed minority, shows them they aren’t welcome in the culture, and is therefore wrong and shouldn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/274 "2020-11-03T14:26:06Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Any comments and criticism directed to Islam now could be equally directed to the other religions at various points in the past. They were. And people were shittier than. So is your argument is “It’s acceptable to do as the Nazis or Nero did”? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/275 "2020-11-03T14:27:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You could have ended the sentence right here and it would convey the same message as the “satire” If any rational person thought that not publishing caricatures of Islam would be the end of radicalized Islamist terrorism, then that would be the end of it. But you know as well as anyone (or well you should) that caricatures are not the reason for the fundamentalism. Not by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/276 "2020-11-03T14:28:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Millions of moderate Muslims still follow the tradition of not depicting Muhammad, though, and are hence targeted by the “satire” And millions of secular people follow the tradition of satire and ridicule and criticism and are deeply offended by the teachings of religions and the restrictions on free speech and personal autonomy that theocracies impose. They are “targeted” by those aspects of religion too. As they are mutually exclusive which should prevail and why? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/277 "2020-11-03T14:28:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So is your argument is “It’s acceptable to do as the Nazis or Nero did”? No. Who is arguing for genocide of Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/278 "2020-11-03T14:31:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …so, about that _Giftpilz_ … Is your claim that only something as Islamophobic as your anti-semetic children’s book would be a problem? So we’re good to go on a stoner comedy based around the life of Muhammed right? Hollywood is gonna greenlight the Muslim equivalent of The First Temptation of Christ any day now, right? > **[The First Temptation of Christ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Temptation_of_Christ)** > > The First Temptation of Christ (Portuguese: A Primeira Tentação de Cristo) is a 2019 Brazilian satirical comedy film produced by the comedy troupe Porta dos Fundos. It was released on Netflix on 3 December 2019. > Jesus returns home after 40 days in the desert, where a surprise 30th birthday party awaits him. At the party, Mary and Joseph reveal to Jesus that his true father is God. > The Christmas special has faced backlash over its satirical depictions, which imply Jesus has a gay lover and Mar... Or are you actually spewing irrelevant crap because the people you’re defending are against ANY representation of Muhammed, whether it intends to stoke Islamophobia or just be a stoner film. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/279 "2020-11-03T14:32:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you get this butthurt about the Book of Mormon? I’m not “butthurt” about anything, buddy. So I don’t know what this nonsequitur is about - it’s a religious text, why should I care ? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/280 "2020-11-03T14:33:41Z")
Note that Christians were super offended by the film and demanded it be taken down. MILLIONS OF THEM! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221.md?page=15)