# France and the cartoons of Mohammed; what's your take? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221 "2020-10-29T16:49:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/502 "2020-11-06T12:59:05Z")
If the only reason black people found blackface offensive was NOT because of its history with minstrel shows and the way its been used to denigrate blacks in America for centuries, but instead because of a religious prohibition, I wouldn’t consider blackface offensive. > [@yarblek](#): > > It seems like a large segment of the Muslim population feels satirical (or other) depictions of Muhammad are akin to how black people feel about blackface ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/503 "2020-11-06T13:00:55Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I didn’t realise there was an entry requirement in order to argue for and against principles. There isn’t. There is, though, a weight to be assigned to people’s fears, on whether they are reasonable or not, based on past lived experience. So when I say I don’t fear the Caliphate, it’s not some intellectual statement, and my past lived experience is why I reject any arguments based off that fear I don’t have. “Death”, you said your answer was. Well, no, that isn’t true. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Then your standard is unenforceable and doomed to unfairness. Slippery slope again, eh? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Remember, the critical cartoons do not need to be in any way racist in order to provoke a murderous degree of offence. I haven’t been arguing against them based on the degree of murderousness of the response. Just the racist offense. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/504 "2020-11-06T13:01:38Z")
How dare you sir? If I can’t put on black face and speak in AAVE so I can critique black drug gangs then sir we are not truly free! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/505 "2020-11-06T13:04:04Z")
I didn’t realize there was a long history of slavery of Muslims in the United States and that even after slavery Minstrel Shows used depictions of Muhammed to try and disparage Muslims and dehumanize them. My bad ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/506 "2020-11-06T13:04:29Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Is it ever possible to draw a caricature of Mohammed that made it clear it was a 6th century middle-eastern trader and warlord and yet was _not_ racist in your eyes? It’s entirely possible to draw a _depiction_ of Muhammad that isn’t racist (although the motivation behind doing so will probably remain a racist one). But as a _caricature_? I highly doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/507 "2020-11-06T13:04:56Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s entirely possible to draw a _depiction_ of Muhammad that isn’t racist (although the motivation behind doing so will probably remain a racist one). But as a _caricature_ ? I highly doubt it So you think ALL political cartoons are bad? Eta: I wish you’d just come out and said ‘all caricatures of non white targets are vile, racist, and hateful’ from day 1 so we didn’t waste so much time then. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/508 "2020-11-06T13:05:32Z")
No, just the racist ones. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/509 "2020-11-06T13:06:32Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, just the racist ones Silly me, I might have known. So how much does the government need to pay you to have you look at every cartoon published to decree the sentence? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/510 "2020-11-06T13:07:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > […] instead because of a religious prohibition […] It becomes clearer and clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/511 "2020-11-06T13:08:33Z")
By the way, you never answered whether the depiction of the Budah or Jesus is enough to get that cartoonist censured, or if only Muhammad crossed a line. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/512 "2020-11-06T13:09:31Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > It becomes clearer and clearer More cryptic one liners alleging racism. I’ll humor you – WHAT is becoming clearer? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/513 "2020-11-06T13:10:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > More cryptic one liners alleging racism. Given the quote, how can it be about race? I don’t think the rules allow me to be as clear as I’d like to be. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/514 "2020-11-06T13:13:00Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > More cryptic one liners alleging racism. > > Given the quote, how can it be about race? > I don’t think the rules allow me to be as clear as I’d like to be 🙄 yep, cryptic one liners alleging racism all the way down ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/515 "2020-11-06T13:13:23Z")
Directly from them? Not much (unless you’re living in France). However, the general appeasing of extreme Islamicists comes from the fact is that enough Islamicists murder people in broad daylight, not from any real respect for their beliefs. Nobody cares if they insult sikhs or christians or hindus even remotely in the same way, and, I gather, it’s for the lack of broad-daylight-decaptiation-in-Europe-ness. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/516 "2020-11-06T13:30:26Z")
White Jesus and Fat Buddha aren’t racist portrayals of a real person. They’re caricatures of made-up images already. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/517 "2020-11-06T13:31:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > yep, cryptic one liners alleging racism all the way down It’s obviously not racism he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/518 "2020-11-06T13:33:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > White Jesus and Fat Buddha aren’t racist portrayals of a real person. They’re caricatures of made-up images already Gotcha. So we areback to moving the goal posts in order to ensure that any portrayal of Muhammed is highly offensive and anything else is not. By the way, the cartoon has a fairly middle eastern Jesus, but w/e. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/519 "2020-11-06T13:34:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > yep, cryptic one liners alleging racism all the way down > > It’s obviously not racism he’s talking about Then I have no idea what he IS talking about. Is it becoming clearer and clearer that I don’t particularly care if people’s religious beliefs are broken by others or by the state, so long as nobody is forced to break their own religious prohibition against their will? Because if so, good, I’ve been saying that over and over, it SHOULD get clear. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/520 "2020-11-06T13:35:40Z")
Don’t be too sure the French are all about appeasement, not what Macron is saying now nor historically when the cops were murdering Arab protesters in the 1950s. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221/521 "2020-11-06T13:39:45Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Don’t be too sure the French are all about appeasement, not what Macron is saying now nor historically when the cops were murdering Arab protesters in the 1950s And let me be clear and say that this would not be an appropriate response at all. In a free society people should be free to express themselves, but also free to criticize others’ self expression. They’re just not free to silence it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-and-the-cartoons-of-mohammed-whats-your-take/924221.md?page=27)