# France bans e-mail **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471 "2003-07-18T20:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![New\_Improved\_Scott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f17d59/32.png) [@New\_Improved\_Scott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Improved_Scott)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/21 "2003-07-19T17:40:54Z")
I work for a Canadian ISP in Montreal, and our documentation referrs to it as “courriel”. And, **Beagle** , Spam mail does have a word for it: Pourriel. And I don’t have a major issue with coming up with words in any language as technology advances. Heck, it’s not like they’re trying to force you to change to word for it in english. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/22 "2003-07-19T18:27:00Z")
France has a committee in place that “creates” French words to replace English (and other languages). For instance, a walkman is now called _un balladeur_. Has a nice ring to it, sure. But to me, it’s all kind of silly. Then again, the Dutch are the ultimate language whores. We borrow words from any language we deal with. It’s no wonder the French and Quebec initiatives seem silly to me: doesn’t mean they are, per se. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Improved\_Scott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f17d59/32.png) [@New\_Improved\_Scott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Improved_Scott)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/23 "2003-07-19T18:44:12Z")
There’s a comittee here in Quebec too. L’office de la Langue Francais. Yeah it’s silly alot of the time. Balladeur isn’t so bad. My favorites are “pare-choc” for Bumper, “pare-brise” for windsheild, and “chien-chaud” for hotdog. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/24 "2003-07-19T18:50:10Z")
**N&IS** , these are standard terms that existed a long time before the OLF existed. They didn’t create them. If you want some OLF sillyness, I will refer you to my previous post regarding _gaminet_ for T-shirt, or _hambourgeois_ for hamburger or even _boeuf mariné_ for smoked meat ! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/25 "2003-07-19T18:52:43Z")
Slight hijack: What does the Academie Francaise do if you use “wrong” words? Can it cause books or papers to not be published? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/26 "2003-07-19T18:54:34Z")
Chien-chaud! You’re not shitting me? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Improved\_Scott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f17d59/32.png) [@New\_Improved\_Scott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Improved_Scott)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/27 "2003-07-19T19:05:01Z")
Nope. Link here [http://www.lamerveille.qc.ca/carte.html](http://www.lamerveille.qc.ca/carte.html) Look under “Casse-Croute” It’s all over the province. ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/28 "2003-07-19T20:18:44Z")
There’s nothing wrong with efforts to keep a language from changing unrecognizably, I think. Just as long as you don’t go overboard. Think of all the languages that have died because they were either absorbed, or shoved aside as a marginal language. I think that is a shame. On the other hand, though, we’re talking about the country where they can deny you the right to name your child as you wish if they feel it’s not culturally compatible, or not euphonious. An example that I saw was a family who wanted to name their daughter Keiko Marie. This was not allowed, since Keiko is a Japanese name and neither parent was Japanese. They did allow them to name her Marie Keiko, however, since the French name would be her “given” name, but her family calls her Keiko. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/29 "2003-07-19T20:28:22Z")
Upon further reflection… I can’t _believe_ it didn’t occur to me until just now that the proper OP would have been “Au revoir, ‘e-mail.’ Bonjour courriel.” I guess I’m just an Ugly American after all. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/30 "2003-07-19T21:17:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by New & Improved Scott \* > \*\*I work for a Canadian ISP in Montreal, and our documentation referrs to it as “courriel”. And, **Beagle** , Spam mail does have a word for it: Pourriel. > \*\* Oo! That’s a good one! I like it. The anti-spam policy on the French version of one of our websites refers to spam as: _pollupostage_. Pourriel is pretty neat though. Has the “poubelle” thing happening. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/31 "2003-07-19T21:36:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Slight hijack: > What does the Academie Francaise do if you use “wrong” words? > Can it cause books or papers to not be published? \*\* Probably not – here in Canada it’s mostly adopted as a writing style guide. Compare the language you use on the street to the language you read in a newspaper, government document, or business correspondence. For an English example, I may say to Sniff\_Markers “hand me a Kleenex, please.” Government publications and newspapers would follow the rules of official language style guides and would most likely write “hand me a facial tissue” to avoid the brand name that’s been picked up in causal speech. So sentences like “to reach us by phone” would be “to reach us by telephone.” Stuff like that. It’s not as rigid as it sounds. It’s just style guide stuff. Kind of like the way your spellcheck might get in a tizzy for using “mailman” instead of “letter carrier” which is gender-neutral. “E-mail” instead of “courriel” would just be considered improper. So, a government employee will call another office to casually SAY “envoyez-moi l’information par e-mail” but government pamphlets and publications, newspapers, and “professional business services” (like banks) that use “proper” French would officially WRITE “courriel.” Books would still be published. Though if you wrote it in your term paper, they’d probably consider it to be a little sloppy for formal writing and your prof would go “tsk! tsk! tsk!” ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ray\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Walker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/32 "2003-07-20T00:14:40Z")
Wow, they feel that threatened by English? How sad. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/33 "2003-07-20T00:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Chien-chaud! You’re not shitting me? 🙂 \*\* I personally prefer the term _rôteux_ myself 😉 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/34 "2003-07-20T00:24:15Z")
Eats, thanks for the clarification. Folks, these people aren’t burning newspapers. What they do is they adopt an official style guide that the government uses and other people are allowed to. This is actually really useful; as a translator, it is essential for me to know the official translation of some English technical term so as not to unwittingly sow confusion by using some term that another department doesn’t use. English-language companies publish usage guides too. For example, if I’m translating something from French to English for VIA, I have to use their style guide for the English-language term. (I don’t want to be calling it “customer service” if everyone else calls it “passenger service,” and so forth.) Anyway, all this does is lays out an official government standard term: from now on, the term “e-mail” will be translated as “courriel.” Nothing wrong with that. Frankly, I like the sound of “courriel” more than “mèl” or whatever it was. And we’ve been calling it “courriel,” even in conversation, in Quebec for years. It’s actually kind of nice to see France using the Quebec word for once; usually it’s Quebecers using the French word to be snotty, not vice versa. (Finally, why is it nobody ever gets heated up about, say, the Spanish calling it “correo electrónico”?) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/35 "2003-07-20T00:26:00Z")
To clarify Larry’s comments above… we have the additional problem that _émail_ already means “enamel”. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/36 "2003-07-20T00:28:02Z")
> [@](#): > > hambourgeois for hamburger detop, do you think it’s weird that the Spanish (once again) call it a _hamburguesa_? ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/37 "2003-07-20T00:45:23Z")
I don’t speaj Spanish, therefore I will have ti guesstimate that _hamburguesa_ = _hambourgeois_. I have no problem with that, but for the French version what annoys me is that its a bad translation and we weren’t offered alternatives. Better translations would be _sandwich hambourgeois or à la mode de Hambourg or de Hambourg_. Anyway, it’s all moot, everybody I know still call them “hamburgers” anyway 😃 ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/38 "2003-07-20T01:00:01Z")
**AAARGH 1** speaj = speak ti = to its = it’s OK I’m off to the _Oratoire St-Joseph_ to atone for these STUPID mistakes by climbing the stairs on my knees. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/39 "2003-07-20T01:26:34Z")
The academy offers guidelines, not “laws”. It didn’t BAN the use of a word. It simply recommended the use of one in written communication. Just a side note: There’s such a HUGE difference between _spoken_ french and _written_ french that this is where the academy becomes really useful - it sets the standards we use for WRITTEN communication, and everyone seems to get along with that quite well. There are so many dialects and regional variations (and I don’t just mean accents and expressions - I mean distinctive grammatical differences and irregularities, along with pronounciation differences)… because of this, the Academy is useful in setting down something we can all rely on for written communication. It is also often the standard for governmental agencies in France (not necessarily in french Canada though). I think this isn’t really _special_ – hell, companies everywhere agree on vocabulary and standard expressions all the time. You may turn to Webster for a definition/proper use, we’ll turn to the dictionaries put out by the Academy. Big whoopie. They even help put out regional/dialect dictionaries! French is a language that has adopted far more english words than I’d care to quote - from “shopping” to “parking” to “puz” (for puzzle) or “pull” (for a sweater/pull-over), I don’t think they are thumbing their nose at the english language and saying “poohpooh we want to keep our language pure.” While the Academy sets a “standard”, it doesn’t mean everyone sticks to it. You’ll look around a long time before you find a french-canadian who uses the words listed above in the same way the french do - in fact, we’d use the so-called correct, original french words as opposed to the _anglicismes_ (as they are called.) As far as it being silly, I don’t know… I don’t think creating new words (that describe new inventions, etc.) is only a French thing. Creating new words to describe new things, new concepts is only a part of keeping a live language… well… alive, no? I think they just wanted to set a standard when it came to the use of the word for “email”. And frankly, courriel is a great word. It has an understandable root. In French Canada, I think you’ll find most companies have opted for courriel already. So… _shrug_. I don’t know what the fuss is all about. I _was_ amused though at the headlines: FRANCE BANS THE WORD EMAIL… it has nothing to do with banning! It’s just a decision to recommend the use of a different word, one already in use, as part of standard french. email will still exist. It will likely even be in french dictionaries with the note “anglicism” put next to it. It’s just amusing to see how english media has taken this and run with it in a really freaky way. Why not say how the academy has supported the use of “shopping” and “pull” and “parking” and “puzzle” and… Meh. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471/40 "2003-07-20T01:30:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wang-Ka \* > \*\*Do the French PEOPLE actually abide by this nonsense? I mean, sure, they speak French, but do they actually make a point of avoiding English usage and terminology in their language? Or do they just not pay any attention to their idiot government? \*\* From what I’ve seen, not really. When I talk with my family members and their friends over there (a couple of whom even work for the government), they use plenty of loanwords. Interesting that there were no news stories about this when the Japanese government did the exact same thing last year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-bans-e-mail/189471.md?page=3)