People interpret religions differently. Are you setting yourself up as the arbiter of what is and what is not Islamic? Millions and Millions of Islamic women wear headscarves as part of their observance of that religion. Whether or not it’s in the Koran is completely irrelevant.
BTW, plenty of women wear the scarves in Turkey*, Iraq and Iran (pre and post revolution). You have your facts wrong.
*Despite efforts by the government to outlaw it
Millions of Muslims would argue with you that you don’t know what your are talking about and I don’t know if you really know what exactly you refer to when taking this position.
Speaking for myself I don’t see any command in Al Qur’an which orders a woman to cover her hair.
Yet that is my interpretation of the text and this goes directly against the traditional Tafsier (exegeses) and against about every translation in a foreign language that I know of.
You are completely wrong on this. It is the traditional and still wordwide accepted interpretation of the text of Al Qur’an.
The fact that you don’t see hair covering that much in Turkey has to do with the fact that the government does everything to bann it. However this has a limited succes seen the fact that it doesn’t affect rural communities that much. And seen the fact that Turkish girls living in for example Europe very often choose to wear it.
Talking about Saudi Arabia: did you ever see a picture of Mekka during hadj? Millions of Muslims from all over the globe gathered, all wearing the rpescribed clothing which is for men two unsewed white pieces of cloth and for women being covered from top to toe except for face and hands.
You are right on one thing though: You wont see any woman wearing a burqah where this clothing isn’t part of the culture and you are right that this complete covering of even the face and hands has little nothing to do with the teachings of Islam.
There is with the best will of the world nothing to be found prescribing that in Al Qur’an.
In the comments of some of the famous Islamic writers and scholars you can find suggestions that modesty would include covering hands and faces leaving only the eyes visible.
It is for millions of religious Islamic women seen and felt as a requirement to wear hidjab since they are convinced this is ordered by Al Qur’an and they are also teached it is a command of Islam by people who themselves are convinced of this.
You may believe me if I say that the French authorities are very well aware of this.
A last remark on this: You shall see all over the world women who cover their hair when they prepare for prayers. Even when they choose not to wear hidjab for the rest of the time, they choose to do soo when seeking contact with God, following the command that asks for modesty of both sexes.
Salaam. A
You seem to be quite convoluted. Islam is the Qu’ran. If the Qu’ran does not require women to wear a headscarf, then a headscarf is not a symbol of religious Islam. It is a symbol of necessary clothing required by desert dwelling peoples that are often in need to protection from sandstorms. Islam was born in the deserts of the Middle East and that is where the headscarf came from.
If you have not noticed many other faiths (including Christianity and Judaism) have cultural traditions encouraging women to wear headscarves. That does not mean that all Catholics have to dress like a nun or all Orthodox Greeks have to wear a headscarf. Orthodox Jewish women also wear headscarves but you do not see that as being symbolic of Judaism.
**
That is cultural and customary, not religious. How many Albanians or Indonesian women do you see in headscarves?
**
LOL
**
The only reason most women wear the headscarves in Iran is because they are forced to. As for Turkey and Iraq, it is not illegal to wear a headscarf and many women do not wear them.
2Thick
I’m sorry, but you show your ignorance with every new post you make.
Salaam. A
The only difference between you and me is that I am not Arab.
I think one of the differences is also that I’m a scholar and you are not.
Salaam. A
You shouldn’t take the Internet so personal.
If you are finished with the personal insults, you might want to present an argument to support your side.
2Thick, you seem to be under the impression that Islam is a uniform monolithic group, where everyone worships the same way, interprets the Koran the same way, and follows the same habits and traditions.
Surely, given how splintered Christianity and Judiasm are, you can imagine that some Muslems might interpret the Koran where they believe a head scarf is necessary, while others don’t?
I’m not so desperate that I ever take anything on the internet serious.
But since you declare that you are scholared on this issue I’m waiting for you to prove your wildly posted argumentation .
Salaam.
mmm… so you are one of those who fall back on claiming that those who point out to you where you are wrong are posting “personal insults”.
It is good to know… If I ever can keep that in my mind of course.
By the way: I’m not so desperate that I ever take anything on the internet serious.
And since you declare that you are scholared on this issue I’m waiting for you to prove your wildly posted knowledge of Islam.
Salaam.
And cut that first post out…I’m typing here on an unknown keyboard with silly buttons I touch without knowing and I always need to read my posts ten times before it is recommended to post them.
I have no idea whether it is or is not a religious precept that Muslim women must wear a headscarf.
However, in my opinion, if they themselves think that it is, that is good enough for me.
It is totally immaterial to me as to whether that particular women is correct in her interpretation of Islam or not. What is important is whether she thinks she is correct, and thinks that her beliefs are being compromised.
Now, this subjectivity obviously cannot go all the way, or some nutter is bound to say that their religious beliefs compell them to go naked and painted blue - it must be subject to the limits of being reasonable.
So, the question is: is it reasonable for a person to believe that their religion compells them to wear some sort of garment over their hair?
Seems to me that it is. So, absent some really compelling reason to prevent them from doing it, they ought to be allowed to do so.
I’ve never been to Albania, but I’ve been to Indonesia, and I can assure you that headscarves are extremely common there. Where are you getting your facts?
Many Jews where yarmukes. Many don’t. They’re all still Jews. Same with Muslim women.
It really doesn’t matter if a particular religious symbol is common in Lower Elbonia or not. If France wishes to keep religious symbols out of public schools, huzzah for them. If a person is so gangsta-ass religious that they find this intolerably offensive, they can always go to a agreeable private school.
And in any case, anyone with some familiarity with the French situation would see it as a way to go after the North Africans under cover of going under anything “too religious”. But maybe it need not be something specifically against North African Muslims, but against “others” – people who assert identities other than Generic French.
This looks like a half-arsed attempt to solve the wrong problem through the wrong symbolic actions, more typical of American school districts. Makes you ambivalent about how to feel when it turns out to work like that worldwide.
In other words, “Let them eat cake”? That went over real well the last time…
No, just let them, or Jews, or Christians, or whoever, practice their religion privately. It’s not the French government’s business to say, “You can’t believe X”, it seems to me, but it is within their right to say “Your belief in X doesn’t entitle you to do whatever public actions you want.” In other words, believe what you want, but keep it out of public life.
One of the things that worries me is the idea of driving people who just want to express their faith or culture into religious schools in large numbers - there are too many people around at the moment with extreme agendas (and lots of Saudi money for them to use to set up schools- at least this is what has been happening in Bosnia IIRC). That “law of unintended consequences” thingy has a nasty habit of biting you in the arse.
I think the idea is that allowing the religious clothing in school is divisive. By wearing it, you’re saying to everyone, “Look at me, I’m Muslim”, or “Look at me, I’m Jewish”, or “Look at me, I’m Christian”, instead of just saying, "Look at me, I’m French"
So in other words, they should be French before they are Christian, Muslim, or Jewish?
In the United States children under the age of 16 are compelled by the state to attend school. In France are children likewise compelled by the state to go to school? If so then I think the public schools should make reasonable accomodations for students with varied beliefs. Wearing a funny little hat or a scarf doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.
Marc