# France makes every citizen an organ donor! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 13, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066 "2017-01-13T20:38:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sandwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Sandwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwood)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/21 "2017-01-14T01:20:53Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I usually check the donor box when renewing my license, but if I were in France I think I’d opt out. It seems like a kind of sleazy way of tricking people into it. I’m not sure that this is the same as “tricking people into it”, since it’s not something they secretly sign you up for without you being aware of it. I can’t speak for other countries of course, but opting out of the “presumed consent” system as we have around here requires nothing more than filling out a form, which is something you only need to do once during the course of your lifetime, and which can be done by E-mail. If that seems too much of a bother, carrying a written note with you stating that you don’t want to donate, will work as well - or even just verbally stating your wishes in respect to organ donation to your family or significant other. Opting out really isn’t any more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/22 "2017-01-14T01:33:21Z")
If that’s tricking people into donating their organs, then having an opt-in system is tricking them into not donating their organs. Since opt-out systems result in a percentage of organ donors that closely aligns with how many people say they want to be organ donors, then it’s clearly the preferable system. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/23 "2017-01-14T01:43:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m not paranoid, but if I were, I might worry that they’d let me die when they could have revived me, just so they could use my organs. Not sure if that counts as “rational” or not. Sure, but then, _just as likely,_ you’d get a Medical Professional that will go: “T\*his asshole didnt even care enough to make himself a donor, why should I bust my ass trying to get him a new heart?” \* ---
**Author:** ![Oukile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@Oukile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oukile)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/24 "2017-01-14T02:49:28Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Who is saying this? And what are the figures to back it up? I find it hard to believe. Per year, maybe. Just checked some French newspaper and I got a figure that there were about 5800 organs transplants in France in 2015. So yeah, rather 1000 lives saved per year. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/25 "2017-01-14T03:33:25Z")
> [@Whatever4](#): > > When you are a living donor, who pays for your medical costs? Just curious. The recipient (or, more accurately in the US, their insurance unless someone is incredibly freakin’ wealthy) pays all medical costs for the living donor related to obtaining the organ. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/26 "2017-01-14T03:57:15Z")
Have it on the back of my drivers license, the Old Wench and the appropriate people all know its my wish, hope someone gets something worth while. I am all for the US making it the rule unless people specify an exception. I understand those who object for religious reasons and I don’t hold it against them — but I’m Lutheran and figure Heaven knows people need the parts here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/27 "2017-01-14T15:59:40Z")
I’m all in favor of the French plan. If you have a serious objection to this, you can report that to the authorities. I think most people don’t sign an organ donor card out of laziness and not caring much. If you don’t care much, you just do what takes the least effort. Where I live you have to get a health card every few years, and you can sign an organ donor card with it. That made it easy so I signed mine. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/28 "2017-01-14T17:13:05Z")
I’m an organ donor, and on a bone marrow donor list. I think everyone should have the heart to be a donor. But I’m just obnoixious enough, or contrary, to think that any government should not be able to make people do something like opting out. A person’s body is, so to speak, their own property and no one else, or any agency, should be able to claim it. People who aren’t donors are lazy jerks, but we shouldn’t be able to make them do something, however slight, that forces them to do the moral thing. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/29 "2017-01-14T19:54:16Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If that’s tricking people into donating their organs, then having an opt-in system is tricking them into not donating their organs. Since opt-out systems result in a percentage of organ donors that closely aligns with how many people say they want to be organ donors, then it’s clearly the preferable system. Well, when you go to the grocery store does the store have its employees pile stuff into your cart that you have to physically remove, or opt out of buying? Of course not. It would probably be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/30 "2017-01-14T20:19:09Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, when you go to the grocery store does the store have its employees pile stuff into your cart that you have to physically remove, or opt out of buying? Of course not. It would probably be illegal. Why do you think that having someone else use your organs after you die is analogous to purchasing merchandise? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/31 "2017-01-15T00:16:36Z")
Australia, like other parts of the world, used to have a “default in” policy in the free public healthcare sector: it was sort of part of the social contract: you get free health care, you contribute to health care. At the same time that organ donation was becoming possible, that social contract was breaking down: if free health care is a right, then organ donation without consent is theft. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/32 "2017-01-15T01:30:50Z")
> [@](#): > > if free health care is a right, then organ donation without consent is theft. Can you explain the thinking here a little more please! How so? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/33 "2017-01-15T01:50:27Z")
It’s not that complicated. Do you or do you not own your own body? If you own your body then no one should be able to take pieces of it without your consent. And death has nothing to do with it - when a person dies no one is allowed to arbitrarily withdraw money from his/her account. No one should be _entitled_ to bits and pieces of you without your consent. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/34 "2017-01-15T02:55:37Z")
France has long had a “we’re different (and better, too!)” attitude. When everyone else was using 8mm film for home movies, France used 9.5mm. When videos came out France modified their implementation (of PAL) to be unique. As did the Soviet Union but for (maybe) different reasons. It is really sad when the difference is that the French have got it right this time. AIUI, most organs are useless by the time they get into medical hands - tissues deteriorate real quick after they stop getting blood to eat. There is a drug that can make the organs more easily transplant-able, but it needs to be given while the donor is still alive (for certain values of “alive”). So a wreck on the road 10 miles form a hospital is not going o do much more than provide corneas. In CA, there are forms at the DMV. If you opt in, there is a very noticeable pink dot on the license (it was a paper sticker originally). I have been carrying a pink dot for 20 years now. I’m afraid I’ve already ruined the kidneys and suspect the tingling in my left arm is not good news for my heart… ETA: I have been spelling “from” as “form” for years. Am going to leave this one. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/35 "2017-01-15T03:08:09Z")
Slight hijack, but interestingly, the coming move to autonomous cars is thought to be bad news for the organ donation industry. Hopefully (??) they won’t outlaw motorcycles, which I understand are known as “donorcycles” and are one of, if not the largest source of donated organs. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/36 "2017-01-15T04:20:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s not that complicated. > > Do you or do you not own your own body? If you own your body then no one should be able to take pieces of it without your consent. And death has nothing to do with it - when a person dies no one is allowed to arbitrarily withdraw money from his/her account. No one should be _entitled_ to bits and pieces of you without your consent. No, I get that thinking. How is this related to having free health care? What difference does that make? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/37 "2017-01-15T04:45:01Z")
If you don’t consent, opt out. Easy. Thousands of saved lives outweigh you being lazy. Consent isn’t really being taken away, it’s just the assumption is changed. In American society we assume consent in a lot of things, like a pat on the back. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/38 "2017-01-15T04:50:54Z")
If opting out is so easy, then opting in is just as easy. Why change a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/39 "2017-01-15T08:59:11Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If opting out is so easy, then opting in is just as easy. Why change a thing? Because it mops up the fence sitters who are too lazy to care one way or the other. This does not disadvantage that group, because they are too lazy to care. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066/40 "2017-01-15T09:40:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Do you or do you not own your own body? If you own your body then no one should be able to take pieces of it without your consent. I don’t know about France, but in common law jurisdictions such as the USA, you do not own your body. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-makes-every-citizen-an-organ-donor/777066.md?page=3)