# France realizes there's no point in trying to hide its scumminess so...doesn't. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442 "2005-04-21T16:54:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/1 "2005-04-21T16:54:20Z")
Yea, more French-bashing you bitches: > **[France Backs China on Taiwan | DW | 21.04.2005](https://www.dw.com/en/france-backs-china-on-taiwan/a-1559253)** > > During a state visit to China, French Premier Raffarin threw support behind a law allowing China to attack Taiwan and continued to push for a lift of the EU arms embargo. > [@](#): > > At the outset of a three-day visit to China, French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin said he supported Beijing’s “anti-secession” law on Taiwan, and vowed to keep pushing for an end to an EU arms embargo that could open the door for Paris to sell weapons to the Asian giant. > > Raffarin also signed or finalized major business deals with Beijing valued at around $3.2 billion (2.4 billion euros). > > Appearing to put his government at odds with the European Union, Raffarin said at the outset of the three day visit that Paris had no objections to the anti-secession law. > > Wen Jiabao > “The anti-secession law is completely compatible with the position of France,” he said in a joint press conference with his Chinese counterpart Wen Jiabao (photo) In China’s newspapers the best they could do in citing countries that supported the law besides France was fricking Cuba. I said it before and I’ll say it again. The US will be at war, proxy or otherwise, in 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/2 "2005-04-21T17:17:29Z")
We’re already at war, proxy and otherwise. I’m sure we’ve done some shady shit to sell weapons to other countries as well. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/3 "2005-04-21T17:22:15Z")
Well, crap. I knew France is a leader in trying to get the arms embargo lifted, but I could have sworn that Chirac had critized the anti-secession law. Very disappointing. That said, that makes France wrong, not scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/4 "2005-04-21T17:38:47Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > In China’s newspapers the best they could do in citing countries that supported the law besides France was fricking Cuba. That’s probably just _quid pro quo_ for those rice cookers. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/5 "2005-04-21T17:41:04Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Well, crap. I knew France is a leader in trying to get the arms embargo lifted, but I could have sworn that Chirac had critized the anti-secession law. Very disappointing. > > That said, that makes France wrong, not scummy. I don’t know **manny**. Here you have a country with billion dollar oil development deals and a number of people on Saddam’s payroll that said it wouldn’t support any resolution that included an ultimatum against Iraq (based on a moral highground), now saying, on the same day as a $4 billion dollar Airbus deal is signed with China, that they support a new law authorizing China to use military force, if necessary, to maintain their imperial interests, and that, by the way, they can’t wait to get the arms embargo lifted. I suppose it doesn’t matter that we’re in a treaty to defend Taiwan. If hypocrisy and turning on one’s “friends,” is just wrong, I sure as hell don’t want to be scummy. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/6 "2005-04-21T17:45:04Z")
Why would China want Europe’s arm? This whole “oh, China is our enemy now because…uh…we need an enemy” thing is so forced, not particularly true, and not very smart. China is a big power and has a lot of pretty big shortcomings, but they are not at all hostile towards the US nor us to them. They have relatively little in terms of expansionist desires and are working more and more to become a member of the world community. They recently signed an unprecedented agreement with India, for example, that will lift decades of animosity and small-scale threats (India would occasionally find Chinese tank tracks in the border areas, for example.) They are one of our biggest trading partners. And they are a great trading partner. The average Chinese income right now is about twice that of India. They are no longer the “starving Chinese” or at all a third world nation. Instead they are a nation that is clamoring for cars and cell phones and refidgerators and the trappings of industrial society. And America is pretty well suited to fill those needs and make a lot of cash off it- it’s kind of like all the money we are making developing Iraq and Afghanistan, but without the need to take anything over. And hopefully, if all the globalists are right, all these consumer goods and all this money will lead of a softening of the regime and eventually a country that looks a lot more like ours. Anyway, I’d rather be in China than Russia right now. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/7 "2005-04-21T17:53:24Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > If hypocrisy and turning on one’s “friends,” is just wrong, I sure as hell don’t want to be scummy. “Nations Don’t Have Freinds,” example #39212. “Scummy” will be when they start rationalizing away China’s human rights abuses and cozying up to dicatators. Oh, wait… [sub]And before someone says it – when the US does it, its scummy too.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/8 "2005-04-21T17:55:42Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I said it before and I’ll say it again. The US will be at war, proxy or otherwise, in 50 years. 😕 With France or China? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/9 "2005-04-21T18:10:21Z")
Errr…Europes arms… ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/10 "2005-04-21T18:16:21Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I don’t know **manny**. Here you have a country with billion dollar oil development deals and a number of people on Saddam’s payroll **that said it wouldn’t support any resolution that included an ultimatum against Iraq (based on a moral highground)** It was the nature of the ultimatum that was the problem. > [@](#): > > The military agenda must not dictate the calendar of inspections. We agree to timetables and to an accelerated calendar, but we cannot accept an ultimatum as long as the inspectors are reporting cooperation. That would mean war. That would lead the Security Council to relinquish its responsibility. > > By imposing a deadline of only a few days, _would we merely be seeking a pretext for war?_ As a permanent member of the Security Council, I will say it again: **France will not allow a resolution to pass that authorizes the automatic use of force**. _Italics_ and **bolding** mine. The treasons for this decision were quite clearly put forward by Dominique de Villepin. [http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/07/villepin.transcript/](http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/07/villepin.transcript/) ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/11 "2005-04-21T18:26:18Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > The **treasons** for this decision were quite clearly put forward by Dominique de Villepin. > > [CNN.com - Villepin: 'War is acknowledgment of failure' - Mar. 9, 2003](http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/07/villepin.transcript/) Although I don’t agree with their position, I wouldn’t go so far as call it treason… ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/12 "2005-04-21T18:37:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > 😕 With France or China? France. We’ll probably get along fine with China. **yojimbo** that has to be one of the funnier Freudian slips I’ve seen in a while. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/13 "2005-04-21T18:47:00Z")
Doh! Finger more than freudian. The T is very near the R on this laptop 😉 Still funny though. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-realizes-theres-no-point-in-trying-to-hide-its-scumminess-so-doesnt/300442/14 "2005-04-21T18:51:53Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > **yojimbo** that has to be one of the funnier Freudian slips I’ve seen in a while. OTOH, there’s nothing funny about your continued misrepresentation of France’s stand prior to the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq. They were right.