# France runoff, Macron vs Le Pen
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [April 20, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128 "2022-04-20T16:56:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/21 "2022-04-24T22:15:22Z")
At least she conceded. More than can be said about our own most recent presidential election.
I hope some of the common sense of the French people rubs off on our own citizens.
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### Author:  [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/22 "2022-04-24T22:19:52Z")
Oh, why set yourself up for disappointment like that?
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### Author:  [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/23 "2022-04-24T22:31:44Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#):
>
> I am very relieved and so glad my fears did not come true. At least not this time! There is a lot to dislike about Macron, but Md. Le Pen is much, much worse.
> I hope M. Macron has learnt his lesson and becomes a better President for the next five years. Alas… well, there is always hope.
As a fellow European, I’m totally with you. I was very concerned about the French election, even so nervous that at 8 PM when the result was to be announced, my heart was pounding. After the shocks of Brexit, Trump in 2016, and the Polish and Hungarian elections the last times around, I feared another blow to democracy. Le Pen would’ve been a catastrophe in the current political situation for Europe. I never could quite pinpoint Macron, but I believe that he’s a honest pro-European and a reliable partner for the French-German friendship, which is still crucial for Europe.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/24 "2022-04-24T22:36:40Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#):
>
> I never could quite pinpoint Macron, but I believe that he’s a honest pro-European and a reliable partner for the French-German friendship, which is still crucial for Europe.
Agree on all points. He may not represent my preferred politics but I trust his intentions.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/25 "2022-04-24T23:23:48Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> Still, it can be something to have to govern knowing that rather than having a proper mandate for you, your margin of win was fundamentally _At Least You Are Not That Other Person Thank God_ . France has had two presidents like that this century, and we in the USA have one such right now.
There was a certain undercurrent of opinion in the United States that this was true of Barack Obama too.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/26 "2022-04-24T23:35:34Z")
> [@flurb](#):
>
> I don’t know much about French politics, but in the U.S. getting branded a “loser” is a pretty quick way to end a political career.
Don’t underestimate the popularity of a martyr, especially one who’s still alive.
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### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/27 "2022-04-24T23:42:46Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#):
>
> I hope some of the common sense of the French people rubs off on our own citizens.
On the one hand , this seems impossible. Few Americans — assuming you are American — will remember this election a month from now. So how could it influence?
And yet — there did seem to be an international populist wave in the past decade, and recent election results, in France and Germany, make me hope it is receding a bit.
Is there political science research on whether voting results internationally are explained by such waves? Or am I imaging a coherence in data trends that are really coincidental?
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### Author:  [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/28 "2022-04-25T00:00:01Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> > [@Aspenglow](#):
> >
> > She’s making her concession speech as I write. So yes, done deal.
>
> That’s nice to know, given how other fascists have reacted more recently.
> [@Aspenglow](#):
>
> At least she conceded. More than can be said about our own most recent presidential election.
Yeah, I was under the impression that conservatives don’t write concession speeches nowadays.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/29 "2022-04-25T01:15:34Z")
How chummy was/is Le Pen with Putin?
If she had won, could Putin have counted on her to wreck any support NATO has been giving to Ukraine?
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### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/30 "2022-04-25T01:27:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> How chummy was/is Le Pen with Putin?
Very. Russia financed her campaign, and she hasn’t paid back the “loan.”
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> If she had won, could Putin have counted on her to wreck any support NATO has been giving to Ukraine?
Entirely. She said she would do it.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/31 "2022-04-25T02:33:16Z")
The mind boggles that she got any votes.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/32 "2022-04-25T02:43:11Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> Is there political science research on whether voting results internationally are explained by such waves? Or am I imaging a coherence in data trends that are really coincidental?
Waves are much more easily discerned in hindsight. Even then, confounding factors blur. In between the two world wars, did the times and the worldwide Depression create a Fascist advance or did a group of Fascists subvert the times for their benefit? How much blame should the imperialist countries - including the U.S. - get for their treatment of the rest of the world? Did massive industrialization improve conditions or did their anti-labor viciousness spark extreme movements on the right and left? You can go on like this for whole books, and find opinions on all sides.
That doesn’t mean that Le Pen’s larger-than-expected loss is anything other than great news. However, it says nothing about the future.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/33 "2022-04-25T03:28:08Z")
I agree. It is scary such people get so much support.
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### Author:  [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/34 "2022-04-25T04:23:29Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> Don’t underestimate the popularity of a martyr, especially one who’s still alive.
Nor the persistent tendency of extremists, and particularly those on the right, to get their martyrdom in first, so that they can harp on their
sense of grievance to justify their own bullying in advance.
But it is clear that the _additional_ support she gained this time is, not unfamiliarly, the result/symptom of economic pressures and precariousness, rather than the dogwhistle racism. The nasty core, though still there as it ever has been, isn’t enough to win on its own account.
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### Author:  [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/35 "2022-04-25T07:07:05Z")
The nasty core is not enough in France, thank Godott. It seems to be in Hungary (Pro-Putin, 2/3rds majority two weeks ago, and proud of it, as Zoltán Kovács, Secretary of State for International Communication at the Hungarian’s Prime Minister’s Office [writes in The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/letters/archive/2022/04/hungary-parliamentary-elections-viktor-orban/629621/)). It isn’t in [Slovenia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/opposition-slovenian-liberal-party-on-course-for-landslide-win-say-exit-polls) (Yessss! Yesterday was not a bad day!). It was in Poland… Let’s just enjoy a positive day while the good feeling lasts.
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### Author:  [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/36 "2022-04-25T07:52:41Z")
The dreadful chance that Le Pen would win did keep people on their toes across Europe.
One thing it would’ve resulted in would’ve been the torpedoing of Sweden and Finland’s upcoming NATO membership.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/37 "2022-04-25T12:13:39Z")
>
God forbid any other major industrialized countries might study the French voting system to see how it could be emulated.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/38 "2022-04-25T12:30:05Z")
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> God forbid any other major industrialized countries might study the French voting system to see how it could be emulated
That assumes that these other countries want free and fair elections. But in fact, some other countries have electoral systems specifically designed specifically to grant a minority group a permenant electoral advantage.
You can’t look at a society with purposefully rigged elections and wring your hands over how they aren’t fair. Or, you CAN, but it isn’t going to be productive at all.
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### Author:  [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/39 "2022-04-25T13:01:23Z")
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> God forbid any other major industrialized countries might study the French voting system to see how it could be emulated.
I’ve never particularly understood why, but the default in the United States (on the right but also a lot of the left as well) is to regard almost anything done by the French as an affront to American values – e.g. “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” and whatnot.
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### Author:  [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-runoff-macron-vs-le-pen/963128/40 "2022-04-25T16:49:35Z")
What I find to be very interesting is that Le Pen’s party only has 6 seats in the National Assembly and 0 in the Senate (though about 19 in the European Parliament). So is it fair to say that this seems more like a cult of personality than any rise in nationalist fervor from France? When Le Pen steps off the stage, perhaps the far right will go back to not making the second round in Presidential elections?
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