# France to ban religious clothing items **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732 "2003-12-18T12:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/1 "2003-12-18T12:25:07Z")
[Chirac seeks law to ban headscarves](http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2003/12/18/chirac_seeks_law_to_ban_headscarves?mode=PF) > [@](#): > > President Jacques Chirac, warning that growing ethnic and religious divisions threatened to erode France’s tradition of equality, called yesterday for a new law that would ban Muslim girls’ headscarves and all other overt religious symbols from the country’s public schools. > > By taking a firm line against headscarves and growing “communitarianism,” Chirac was following the advice of a government-appointed panel, which last week recommended the ban on veils. > > But Chirac yesterday went further than the commission, saying private businesses should be allowed to ban their Muslim employees from wearing headscarves “for reasons of security or client contact,” and patients at public hospitals should not be allowed to refuse treatment from doctors of the opposite sex. Some French Muslim men reportedly have refused to allow male doctors to treat their wives. Fascist motherfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/2 "2003-12-18T12:43:35Z")
I think they’re socialist MFers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/3 "2003-12-18T12:45:46Z")
France has quite a problem with violence and bigotry from their mostly immigrant Muslim community and they have a right to address it. That said, I don’t know what this is supposed to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/4 "2003-12-18T12:47:11Z")
Is it that time again? My, France bashing comes around quicker each month! A great debate on this subject started a week ago: [France likely to ban Muslim headscarves, Jewish kippas etc in schools](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=228630) ---
**Author:** ![Alereon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alereon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alereon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/5 "2003-12-18T12:54:02Z")
Damn, and I felt like hot shit because I had a thread up six minutes after it hit the newswire. ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/6 "2003-12-18T12:57:04Z")
I think that this focuses on headscarves too much, he is banning _all_ obvious signs of religion. At least he isn’t singling out one religous group. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/7 "2003-12-18T12:57:27Z")
Chirac is not a socialist, but don’t let fact get in the way of a good rant. I can see what France are trying to do, but I think it should be left up to the schools themselves wether they want to impress a dress code or not. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/8 "2003-12-18T13:33:40Z")
Uniforms are definitely the way to go, with maybe a little corporal punishment for violators. (Something that will hurt a little, but not harm the child). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/9 "2003-12-18T14:26:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WILLASS \* > \*\*I think that this focuses on headscarves too much, he is banning _all_ obvious signs of religion. At least he isn’t singling out one religous group. \*\* From the article: “He said small, discreet signs, like tiny crosses or Stars of David should be allowed.” ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/10 "2003-12-18T14:36:36Z")
So, you could wear a cross, but not drag one around? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/11 "2003-12-18T15:38:17Z")
I am a male Christian who believes in religious freedom but persoanally has no use for Islam. If I were a French schoolkid, I’d wear the scarf, with a yamulke (which I think may also be banned), and a RHINESTONE JESUS CRUCIFIX WITH RUBY LOINCLOTH! btw, yeah, I also a heterosexist but I’d still wear all that. Socialist or fascist- it’s the poison of secularist statism. Fuck ‘em! French policies on recognizing religious groups makes me sympathize (kinda almost sorta) with the frickin’ Church of Scientology! ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/12 "2003-12-18T15:42:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that this focuses on headscarves too much, he is banning all obvious signs of religion. At least he isn’t singling out one religous group. Well, yes and no. The thing is, its the headscarfs that this law targets; those were what really set it all off, and its the main thing they’re after. Which makes for a very strange point: could non-Muslims wear them? My Grandma still wears one outside, and she’s about as Muslim as Peter Pan. But yeah, I think this is a vaguely racist and very stupid action. Its not like they are hurting anyone, even themselves, and I can hardly see how this could be a distraction. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/13 "2003-12-18T16:14:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*I can see what France are trying to do, but I think it should be left up to the schools themselves wether they want to impress a dress code or not. \*\* It _has_ been, up until now. Apparently, though, the local “Muslim leadership” is adopting the U.S. demands for a “zero tolerance” policy that treats actions absolutely identically regardless of space, time, or cause, and Chirac’s proposed legislation is merely an attempt to have the nationwide legal machinery in place when _le merde_ hits _le ventilateur_. ---
**Author:** ![Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horrifying_Howler_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/14 "2003-12-18T16:18:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*…and a RHINESTONE JESUS CRUCIFIX WITH RUBY LOINCLOTH! > \*\* Well hey, french school kid or not, I think we could do with one of those anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/15 "2003-12-18T16:21:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by county \* > \*\*Uniforms are definitely the way to go, with maybe a little corporal punishment for violators. (Something that will hurt a little, but not harm the child). \*\* And maybe a little compulsory singing of “Duetscheland Uber Alles”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/16 "2003-12-18T16:24:13Z")
Is Chirac trying to rack up points? Some American Republicans proclaim that abortion should be illegal knowing full well that passing a constitutional ammendment is very unlikely. The proclaimation is used as a vote getter not as a promise of what the candidate will accomplish. Is Chirac committing political suicide? France has a very large Muslim population that I assume votes since they came primarily from France’s colonies. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/17 "2003-12-18T17:22:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*Socialist or fascist- it’s the poison of secularist statism. Fuck 'em! \*\* No, fuck you for the whole “poison of secularist statism” crap. A secular state is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/18 "2003-12-18T17:32:47Z")
> [@](#): > > France has a very large Muslim population that I assume votes since they came primarily from France’s colonies. From what I’ve heard - no cite - muslims in Europe do not vote much. They feel excluded from the political process, probably because the rest of Europe doesn’t realy like them, often with good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/19 "2003-12-18T18:11:47Z")
I find it interesting that nobody, neither in this nor in the other thread, has mentioned that the proposal also includes introducing Yom Kippur and a muslim holiday, the name of which escapes me, as national holidays. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732/20 "2003-12-18T18:45:15Z")
Does anybody know if the religious clothing ban has any halfway sensible purpose, that is, other than giving the Muslims a poke in the eye? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-to-ban-religious-clothing-items/219732.md?page=2)