# Franchisers, the lowest of the low. (Long) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839 "2022-02-20T20:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/101 "2022-02-23T20:33:17Z")
The franchise disclosure document lists every franchisee, including those who have left the system within the past year. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/102 "2022-02-23T20:37:12Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I tried that for PuroClean, along with a few other attempts to dig up dirt on their franchise program, and didn’t find any red flags. So maybe it’s not as easy as it might seem to find out the real story. I just did as well. Lots of good news. I suspect that they have done a great job of search engine optimization. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/103 "2022-02-23T20:42:06Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I tried that for PuroClean, along with a few other attempts to dig up dirt on their franchise program, and didn’t find any red flags. So maybe it’s not as easy as it might seem to find out the real story. Doing a bit of Googling, it looks like it’s easy to be misled. Searching for “PuroClean franchise”, for instance, turns up **[reviews on a site called _Franchise Business Review_](https://franchisebusinessreview.com/franchise-reviews/puroclean/)** that appear to rate it very highly. It appears, in fact, that pretty much all the franchisees are delighted! So the question then becomes, can a site like _Franchise Business Review_ actually be trusted? **[It seems that the short answer is “no”](https://www.thefranchiseking.com/franchise-business-reviews-legit)** and that such sites, far from being impartial reviewers, are little more than marketing organizations for the franchisors. One might almost say that it’s scams all the way down! Or at least, highly biased information in favour of moneyed interests. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/104 "2022-02-23T20:52:56Z")
Yes, Googling “PuroClean franchise scam” and similar keywords yields results that feel oddly manipulated. SEO, indeed! Whatever and however you choose to present your analysis, @JohnT, I hope it reaches a wide audience. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/105 "2022-02-23T20:57:31Z")
… thinking of monetizing this, tbh. Seems to be quite the market opportunity for independent franchise research. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/106 "2022-02-23T20:58:21Z")
While this franchise sounds like an incredibly bad deal on the face, I don’t think I could say that definitively unless I knew more about their standard markups and their relationships with the insurers. Just to play devil’s advocate…… This business is different from a restaurant…in many ways, of course. But one is that if you own a restaurant, the customer is the one paying for the food. It’s seems to me that with water damage remediation, the insurance company is usually footing the bill. That makes it less price sensitive, maybe WAY less price sensitive. If I buy a juice box at a fast food restaurant, it costs me about a dollar. If I am handed that same juice box in the recovery room after a medical procedure, my insurance company is going to be billed $10-15 bucks for that same juice box. So before I call this a scam, I want to know what the markups are. If it costs $500 in materials and labor to perform a water damage remediation but the price to the customer is $5000 and the customer is getting that money from the insurer, this franchise might not be such a bad deal after all - especially if the insurer guarantees payment - which they sometimes do, because the insurance company doesn’t like it if you get a check from them and stiff the contractor. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/107 "2022-02-23T22:13:24Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Which branch was the base? It was the Navy. (Though there were Marines there too.) I was an employee of the Navy, working for MWR (Morale, Welfare, and Recreation). I made minimum wage as a civil servant. > [@DesertDog](#): > > The navy, having the majority of its personnel at sea and not so many on shore spent its share on buying 16mm movies and projection equipment. On ships the movies were free, on shore would be a theater with a nominal charge like 25- or 50-cents. One of my duty stations (I was in the navy – I was not a sailor) was a joint command so we had _both_ a theater and hobby shop. Yup. I think it was more than 50 cents, but it was not much, a dollar or so. This was in the late 90s (98-99 I believe). It was so cheap you could pay for a movie, come in, buy a hot dog, soda, and popcorn, and then leave with your food having paid a pretty good price, even without watching the movie. In the past the theater had operated at a loss (it was subsidized by the Navy so it wasn’t intended to be profitable), but my boss (the manager) had made some changes that allowed it to be profitable. (The profit would then be used to add things above the budget we had, like we later got a snow cone machine, and had nachos, and other stuff.) I made very little money but I could eat all the popcorn and get all the soda I wanted for free, which for a broke young guy (early 20s) was awesome. Though I had lost my taste for popcorn for years afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/108 "2022-02-24T00:40:14Z")
Neat timing. Currently reading an excellent New Yorker article on how disaster relief / clean-up companies - composed mainly of migrant workers - take advantage of their crews, and then, _whoop!_ PuroClean has suddenly popped up in the mix - curious to find out how their involvement’ll turn out, here. (heh - prolly last print subscription I’ll _EVAR_ have.) Heck - [this is it. (Nov. 8)](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/11/08/the-migrant-workers-who-follow-climate-disasters) I’m guessing paywalled, but posting just in case there’s some “5 free viewings” offer or something. Also wanted to add how pig-ignorant I’ve been on one or two points in this thread and have been enjoying the TILs so far. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/109 "2022-02-24T01:33:01Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > I’m guessing paywalled, but posting just in case there’s some “5 free viewings” offer or something. The _New Yorker_ allows a very limited number of free article viewings per month for non-subscribers (I think it’s currently no more than 4, or maybe less) and after that it’s hard paywalled. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/110 "2022-02-24T03:04:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [snip] the Jack in the Box restaurants in this town were all corporate-owned until 2011, when they got sold to a franchisee. > > For the decade before that sale, the Jumbo Jack was $1.29 ($1.69 if you wanted cheese). > > After the sale, the Jumbo Jack was $3.99. Something doesn’t feel right here. It seems very bad business technique to suddenly raise a burger’s price from $1.29 to $3.99. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/111 "2022-02-24T04:47:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > _PuroClean_ is a water damage remediation service, kind of like Roto-Rooter. Never had need of their services - San Antonio is pretty dry and when it does flood, I’m on relatively high land: if the water rises to my door, it’s a FEMA-level event. First, as others have pointed out, the majority of business comes from a burst pipe/leak or from water damage after a fire, not from flooding, you missed that in your research. (Yes, people can miss stuff when doing research, that’s why it’s good to have someone who’s independent, but knowledgeable look over the contract also.) You found all of your information in what, an hour or two of researching? If one is going to invest tens of thousands of dollars (the purchase of a vehicle alone is going to be that much) into a new career they should at least do that much research to understand what they’re getting into. Second, Roto-Rooter has been around almost 100 years as a drain cleaning & then also plumbing contractor. It looks like they only added damage remediation in the past five years. Before you mentioned it, I didn’t even know they were in that line of work now. > [@JohnT](#): > > And I also saw an ad. For a “franchise expert” giving a lecture at UTSA about franchising and the military. It was free, so I decided to join and attended this “class” one morning. > > I walk in, about 12 people there by the time he started. He immediately wanted to know who was military, asked if any of us had any franchise experience before, and he went into his ‘lecture’. You’ve done nothing to prove that he didn’t target his pitch to his audience. I wouldn’t start a pitch off in some city by saying, "How 'bout them {rival sports team} nor would I start a presentation (to the general public) in LA, SF, or NYC by saying, “Trump 2024!” but I might do that in Iowa or another red state. Does he have another seminar for franchising for teachers, where he starts off talking about his other ‘brother’ who is a teacher & he gives a great story about how franchising is good for teachers? Does he have lots of other ‘siblings,’ one who’s a firefighter & one who’s a cop, for those pitches? I went to a HS graduation this past year. They had every kid who was going into the military stand up & be recognized when their name was called; added less than a minute to the ceremony as it was \< 1% of the graduating class. I could have counted every kid who was enlisting or going ROTC on one hand & still been able to hitchhike home; the vast, vast majority were going on to college, well above the national average. There’s also no military bases (other than a small Coast Guard outpost) anywhere nearby. My guess is that starting off wanting to know who was a veteran wouldn’t play as well in that area. You’re in San Antonio, right? I don’t know that area; are there nearby bases? A significant portion of the HS graduates going into the military? > [@JohnT](#): > > The franchisee is sucked dry, even if they served this country. _Especially if_ they serve this country. While 7% of all US adults are veterans, according to the Census Bureau, 14% of all franchisees are veterans according to [Vetfran.org](http://Vetfran.org). Correlation is not causation. Maybe they’re preying on veterans or maybe it’s that the military is orderly & people who gravitate towards that order also like the orderliness of a franchise, which is why such a high percentage of veterans are franchise owners. TL/DR - I agree with you that if I were looking at starting a business / opening a franchise, I wouldn’t walk away from this one, I’d run. I agree with you that they could be more forthcoming in their costs but they do disclose them all & marketing 101 is sell the customer on your positives, not on the negatives. Finally, I don’t think you’ve proved that they’re preying on the military. Just some feedback since I think you’re looking to maybe publish this somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/112 "2022-02-24T21:02:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … thinking of monetizing this, tbh. Seems to be quite the market opportunity for independent franchise research. So far, it reads like the type of subject John Oliver might cover on “This Week Tonight.” Just needs his writers to punch it up with some funny. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/113 "2022-02-24T21:51:17Z")
Lol, that explains some things! No, by ‘monetize this’, I wasn’t referring to my SDMB rant, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/114 "2022-02-26T02:01:16Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > So before I call this a scam, I want to know what the markups are. If it costs $500 in materials and labor to perform a water damage remediation but the price to the customer is $5000 and the customer is getting that money from the insurer, this franchise might not be such a bad deal after all - especially if the insurer guarantees payment - which they sometimes do, because the insurance company doesn’t like it if you get a check from them and stiff the contractor. From my experience in water damage mitigation, most of the insured claims we worked on were billed directly to the insurance company. Mitigation invoices usually consisted of labor and equipment, with materials often being a very small (or sometimes nonexistent) component. The insurance companies often dictated the price list, or what could be charged per line item. The _labor_ in a mitigation estimate was always priced strictly on quantity of work performed, not time spent performing it. You could charge x dollars for the initial service call, regardless of how near or how far it was. You could charge x dollars for each square foot of carpet removed, regardless of how easy or difficult it was. The _equipment_ were rental fees for the drying equipment. Generally charged to the nearest half day but some insurance companies wanted it charged to the nearest hour or even rounded down to the nearest whole day. Equipment deployment was based on published industry guidelines and insurance companies generally wouldn’t pay for more than what those guidelines specified. We’d submit invoices electronically directly to the insurance company and they generally paid us directly as well; the homeowner never laid hands or eyes on the check. About when I left the industry, the trend was also to name the homeowner _and_ their mortgage company on the checks to ensure that companies weren’t claiming completion of work when it wasn’t done. The idea was that the homeowner wouldn’t sign the check unless they were satisfied. Frequently, we had customers who wanted a cut of the check for no real reason (other than they thought we were being paid too much) and mortgage companies have attempted to take the checks to pay off past-due mortgage payments. A typical water loss might run 3-5 thousand dollars for mitigation (dryout) alone, with repairs costing extra. Can’t charge overhead and profit on mitigation invoices, and most losses took about 4-7 days to complete. I’ve seen residential claims exceeding $50,000 for mitigation but those weren’t frequent. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/115 "2022-02-28T15:30:34Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … thinking of monetizing this, tbh. Seems to be quite the market opportunity for independent franchise research. Wait, don’t just get paid once for your research… Couldn’t you set up a system where ordinary schlubs (who wish they could write like you) pay a lump sum up front, then a monthly fee for the research articles you’d send them? They’d sell them in their own territory and recruit other JT-wannabes… And you’ve already got a template for a sure money-making contract! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/116 "2022-02-28T17:09:15Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Couldn’t you set up a system where ordinary schlubs (who wish they could write like you) pay a lump sum up front, then a monthly fee for the research articles you’d send them? I know you meant this as a kinda joke, but there are companies with names you may recognize where this is their business model (minus the franchising part). Deloitte, Gartner, McKensey, Bain, etc, all will produce lovely reports on whatever you want, for a lovely price. Even, especially(!) for subscribers. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/117 "2022-02-28T23:25:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I know you meant this as a kinda joke A _KINDA_ joke? It was a brilliant joke! Becoming an evil franchiser to franchise exposés of evil franchisers? It’s weasels all the way down… . eta: I don’t care how you do it, but you do need to get your information out there. The sooner you do, the fewer might get suckered… (I was almost one myself, in my overly-optimistic days). ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/118 "2022-03-03T13:04:54Z")
To paraphrase Mr. Pin from Terry Pratchett’s _The Truth_: “But first, we want to talk to the people who wrote this contract.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/119 "2022-03-28T15:59:38Z")
All right, so I spent some time over the past month creating a report about PuroClean, knowing it will be the template of hundreds of reports to come (which is why this one took a damn month, also, I did it in my spare time. Also, business and operation plans had to be made. Squirrel!) The purpose of the report is to evaluate and summarize the FDD for interested PuroClean investors. Right now, it’s in rough draft prototype stage - a basic MS Word report. (I can write and throw tables into a document, but I must use other people to make it look pretty. That’s never been my skillset.) So if y’all are interested in seeing this thing, PM me and I’ll send you a link. Sorry, offer open only to qualified ‘long-time’ Dopers\* so @DefinitelyNotAPuroCleanExecutive, join date 3-29-2022, is not eligible. 😉 \*Defined as: Being a doper before this thread was started. Not being real picky here. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839/120 "2022-03-28T16:05:24Z")
I’ve been a PuroClean secret agent since the beginning. I’m playing the long game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franchisers-the-lowest-of-the-low-long/959839.md?page=7)