# Francophones: "femme" vs. "famme"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769 "2005-02-24T21:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/1 "2005-02-24T21:47:11Z")
A friend of mine got IM’s from a French-speaking gentleman last night, and used the word “famme” where most would use “femme”. Googling, I found several hits, but my French isn’t good enough to discern if this is a standard slang-word, a typo, or if it is its own word with its own unique connotation. Any hints? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/2 "2005-02-24T22:09:27Z")
I’m not fluent, but I don’t recognize the word. Maybe English isn’t the only language where people misspell things phoenetically. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/3 "2005-02-24T22:10:05Z")
It’s a typo. “famme” doesn’t exist in french (barring an unlikely quebecois slang word or somesuch). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/4 "2005-02-24T22:20:59Z")
Does your friend know for sure that the gentleman is indeed French? ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/5 "2005-02-24T22:28:05Z")
I’d say he just doesn’t know how to spell “femme.” Especially since the way you’d say “famme” (fahm) is how “femme” is pronounced. That is, “femme” is pronounced “fahm,” not “fehm.” La Femme Nikita notwithstanding. Kind of like the hideous “Moo-Lawn Rooje.” Feh. ---
**Author:** ![Asteroide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Asteroide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asteroide)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/6 "2005-02-24T23:34:23Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > I’d say he just doesn’t know how to spell “femme.” Especially since the way you’d say “famme” (fahm) is how “femme” is pronounced. That is, “femme” is pronounced “fahm,” not “fehm.” La Femme Nikita notwithstanding. Kind of like the hideous “Moo-Lawn Rooje.” > > Feh. _Femme_ is pronounced “fam” with a very short a - like “family” but a little shorter. So “famme” would be a reasonable misspelling, although in fact I’ve never seen it. This is probably because other related words such as _femelle_ and _féminin_ clearly pronounce the “e” sound. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/7 "2005-02-25T01:44:42Z")
> [@Asteroide](#): > > _Femme_ is pronounced “fam” with a very short a - like “family” but a little shorter. So “famme” would be a reasonable misspelling, although in fact I’ve never seen it. This is probably because other related words such as _femelle_ and _féminin_ clearly pronounce the “e” sound. 😕 I’ve certainly heard “femme” pronounced that way in English-speaking countries (“femme fatale”), but never in French-speaking ones. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/8 "2005-02-25T02:01:09Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > Googling, I found several hits, but my French isn’t good enough to discern if this is a standard slang-word, a typo, or if it is its own word with its own unique connotation. I googled it out of my own curiousity, and I only found a couple of personals-type sites where the word “famme” was in the context of ungrammatical French (_Nous chercher un famme, je parlé un petit français…_). So my vote is for typo as well. **ArchiveGuy** : You’re saying you’ve heard “femme” pronounced like [fam] in English-speaking countries but not French-speaking ones? Go [here](http://www.research.att.com/projects/tts/demo.html), type in _femme_, select Alain or Juliette, and listen to the way they say it. Is that what you mean? The vowel doesn’t sound exactly like the [a] in “family”, but if you make one of the US English-speaking people say “femme”, you’ll definitely hear a difference between the French [fam] and the US English [fEm]. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/9 "2005-02-25T03:43:38Z")
> [@AwSnappity](#): > > Go [here](http://www.research.att.com/projects/tts/demo.html), type in _femme_, select Alain or Juliette, and listen to the way they say it. That is my new favorite website! I think I will spend the rest of the day making Alain, Juliette and friends say made-up words. My favorite so far is “glaaraarraaraarraarrraugh” ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/10 "2005-02-25T05:59:36Z")
Found this on newsgroups: > [@](#): > > \> Pourquoi lit-on fAmme? > > Parce qu’au Moyenâge on prononçait \ (voir “em” prononcé \ dans > empoigner) et que la dénasalisation du XVI° siècle devant une consonne > nasale donne “fame” (comme ami passe de \ à \). Rough translation: Why do you sometimes read, ‘fAmme’ [instead of ‘femme’]? Because in the Middle Ages, it was pronounced “fan-me” (see [like] “em” pronounced as “an” in “empoigner”) and because the 16th Century’s denazilisational form [is that even a word in English?] before a nasal consonant gives “fame” (like “ami” goes from “an-mi” to “ami”). Be gentle with me, **Clairobscur** and other natives 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/11 "2005-02-25T07:22:21Z")
If I was chatting to someone in French on IM and they used ‘famme’ instead of ‘femme’, I’d have trouble believing that they were French. ---
**Author:** ![Asteroide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Asteroide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asteroide)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/12 "2005-02-25T07:46:22Z")
The famous (ish) line from the end of Godard’s “Une Femme est une Femme” illustrates this pretty well «\* Je ne suis pas infâme. Je suis une femme\* » Also, I kind of agree with **Ponster** “famme” is an unlikely typo for a native speaker - more likely to be a non-native’s mistake. OTOH it could be a typo for _flamme_, or some other word. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/13 "2005-02-25T08:08:25Z")
> [@Ponster](#): > > If I was chatting to someone in French on IM and they used ‘famme’ instead of ‘femme’, I’d have trouble believing that they were French. That was exactly my feeling also, but the OP merely says that the correspondent was a _French-speaking person_. ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/14 "2005-02-25T08:14:23Z")
> [@Asteroide](#): > > Also, I kind of agree with **Ponster** “famme” is an unlikely typo for a native speaker - more likely to be a non-native’s mistake. I’m not so sure - many (native) francophones that I’ve met seem to have a very high tolerance for faulty spelling in e-mails etc. We would have to see the rest of the message to judge conclusively. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/15 "2005-02-25T08:30:13Z")
Yeah, but think about it; it’s the word for ‘woman’ - a word most native Francophones will have been highly exposed to for their entire lives; I’m sure there _will_ be those that misspell it, but I’d imagine it would be quite uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/16 "2005-02-25T09:13:10Z")
> [@Ponster](#): > > If I was chatting to someone in French on IM and they used ‘famme’ instead of ‘femme’, I’d have trouble believing that they were French. Many of you guys spell wimmin, and I don’t doubt you’re anglophones 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/17 "2005-02-25T09:26:34Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > Many of you guys spell wimmin, and I don’t doubt you’re anglophones 🙂 Well, quite, but in most cases, that will either be a jokey affectation (and obvious as such), or it will be genuine but accompanied by a broad range of literacy issues (in which case it won’t stand out as remarkable). If it was the sole conspicuous and consistent spelling mistake, I’d be inclined to wonder what was going on. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/18 "2005-02-25T14:29:07Z")
> [@Asteroide](#): > > _Femme_ is pronounced “fam” with a very short a - like “family” but a little shorter. So “famme” would be a reasonable misspelling, although in fact I’ve never seen it. This is probably because other related words such as _femelle_ and _féminin_ clearly pronounce the “e” sound. I have not heard the word “femme” pronounced as “fam” with the A sounding like the A in “family,” which to me is the same A as the A in pan, clan, stand. Of course the way I pronounce “family” might be different from how someone from some other part of the U.S. pronounces it. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/19 "2005-02-25T14:51:31Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > I have not heard the word “femme” pronounced as “fam” with the A sounding like the A in “family,” which to me is the same A as the A in pan, clan, stand. Of course the way I pronounce “family” might be different from how someone from some other part of the U.S. pronounces it. You might be thinking of a more nasal “a” sound than what I’ve heard. The “a” sound at the beginning of “femme” is more like a softer (but clipped) “ah” sound to my ears. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769/20 "2005-02-25T15:54:53Z")
The /a/ in _femme_ is between the /a/ in _family_ and the /a/ in _car_. We really don’t have an equivalent in English, which might account for some of the disagreement in this thread. It’s not a nasal vowel either, like you see in the word _faim_. Can I get a native speaker’s ruling on the validity of that text-to-voice link I provided? The French pronunciation sounds right to my [non-native-but-currently-studying-French-especially-French-phonetics] ears. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/francophones-femme-vs-famme/291769.md?page=2)