# Frank Miller's "The Spirit" crashes and burns, hard... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 25, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660 "2008-12-25T17:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/1 "2008-12-25T17:36:24Z")
At any rate, [Rottentomatoes](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_spirit/) currently has it at 15% (Top Critics = 6%), somewhere between **Superman IV** and **Star Trek V**. Jesus, Frank; what the hell? Have they even heard of movies or comics in your village? I’m strangely disappointed. The ads made it pretty clear that it was not going to be too good in light of the source material, but I wasn’t expecting reviews THAT bad. Miller’s own material has been used to produce a couple of successful films already, and this didn’t look to be all that different (or, indeed, different at all). I guess this probably also kills any chances for other film treatments of the Spirit, which seems like a damn shame. I always thought that it’d be the most natural thing in the world to adapt the character to movies, but apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/2 "2008-12-25T19:25:56Z")
It’s been looking like a disaster from the first trailer. Miller might profess to love the Spirit and respect Eisner, but it was clear he was going to trash it and make another **Sin City**. But it’s clear that instead of doing the Spirit, he wanted some sort of superhero powers (which the Spirit really didn’t have\*) to tack on. The Spirit would be better served as a TV series, anyway – that would be closest to the original, which were short stories themselves. There was a lot of variety, too – humor, horror, crime, etc. – that could be explored in a series. \*Yes, he could take a beating, but like a film noir hero, not a superhero. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/3 "2008-12-25T20:06:54Z")
_Repo! The Genetic Opera_ has a terrible rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and I loved it. YMMV. I think _The Spirit_ looks kinda interesting, and I might catch it in theaters. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/4 "2008-12-25T20:58:00Z")
The first trailer I saw for _The Spirit_ did nothing to make me want to see it. Granted, I never read the original comic or Miller’s treatment of it but the dialogue was so bad. “I’m going to kill you all kinds of dead” and “Somebody get me a tie and it damn sure better be red!” Uh, yeah, sure, whatever. I also had a problem with it looking so much like _Sin City_. Now I actually enjoyed _Sin City_ but I didn’t need another movie that looked just like it. Unless we’re talking about another _Sin City_ movie of course. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/5 "2008-12-25T21:09:48Z")
I should not be indulging in so much schadenfreude right now. I really, really shouldn’t. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/6 "2008-12-25T21:45:07Z")
It was painful to hear that Miller was going to direct The Spirit. I hope someone with talent takes it on someday. I saw a snippet of an interview with Samuel Jackson. Of course he had to say positive things but you could tell he was embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/7 "2008-12-25T21:51:22Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > _Repo! The Genetic Opera_ has a terrible rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and I loved it. YMMV. I think _The Spirit_ looks kinda interesting, and I might catch it in theaters. Bear in mind that the professional geeks hate it to - I haven’t seen such vitriol at [aintitcool.com](http://aintitcool.com) since _Battlefield Earth_. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/8 "2008-12-25T23:15:42Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Now I actually enjoyed _Sin City_ but I didn’t need another movie that looked just like it. Unless we’re talking about another _Sin City_ movie of course. My feelings exactly - I would LOVE to see Sin City II - I just don’t want it to be called The Spirit. I held onto a slim sliver of hope that the early trailer was a piss-take, that Miller was sitting back, laughing about how everyone EXPECTED him to turn The Spirit into Sin City II, and he was actually going to make a movie that was actually in the proper spirit. I was not at all happy to have that sliver ruthlessly ripped from me by all the later trailers, posters, and news. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/9 "2008-12-26T02:00:42Z")
I feel kind of bad for Miller. If you make a bad movie based on your own stuff, well, it’s not good. Make a bad movie based on the work of someone you had a student-mentor relationship with and really admired…that’s gotta suck on multiple levels. Maybe they’ll take the Buck Rogers movie away from him now. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/10 "2008-12-26T05:13:01Z")
> [@Anduinel](#): > > I feel kind of bad for Miller. If you make a bad movie based on your own stuff, well, it’s not good. Make a bad movie based on the work of someone you had a student-mentor relationship with and really admired…that’s gotta suck on multiple levels. > > Maybe they’ll take the Buck Rogers movie away from him now. It’s Miller’s own fault. He’s been getting this exact same criticism (that he’s just plugging characters into Sin City and calling it a day) at least since 2006 when All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder began. He knows exactly what he’s doing and doesn’t seem to care. I thought his respect for Eisner would keep him from totally shitting all over The Spirit, but apparently I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/11 "2008-12-26T06:58:55Z")
Watching this preview makes me wonder why he didn’t just do Sin City 2 finally, when it’s painfully clear he wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/12 "2008-12-26T07:04:07Z")
But was the movie really pretty? ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/13 "2008-12-26T07:49:00Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > I guess this probably also kills any chances for other film treatments of the Spirit, which seems like a damn shame. I always thought that it’d be the most natural thing in the world to adapt the character to movies, but apparently not. Not necessarily…after all, half-assed films haven’t kept The Punisher off the silver screen. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/14 "2008-12-26T14:53:35Z")
I’ll still probably see it. Rotten Tomatoes is usually so far from my perspective that it is almost a given that I’ll hate it if they give it a high mark and vice versa. Not always, but often enough. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/15 "2008-12-26T15:21:37Z")
> [@Uvula\_Donor](#): > > Not necessarily…after all, half-assed films haven’t kept The Punisher off the silver screen. Well yes, but the Punisher has his own distinct set of problems. Adapting the Spirit to film is (or should be) a matter of successfully translating the tone and character of the original material. But the Punisher was a ripoff to begin with. He has no original character or tone, just a pirate T-shirt. Dozens upon dozens of generic paramilitary action films made over the last 40 years could just as easily have been a Punisher movie. Maybe if the Punisher had been introduced to the moviegoing public in a big-budget film that incomprehensibly merged his Vietnam/Mafia origin with that one story arc where he goes to Hell to fight demons, we might not have seen a big rush to make new Punisher films. I think the Spirit’s situation is somewhat closer to that of John Constantine at this point. In fact, there’s supposedly a new John Constantine movie in the works; of course, it’s a sequel to the Keanu Reeves film. Likewise, this Spirit movie pretty much guarantees that any future film adaptations will be faithful to the Miller movie rather than attempt to start from scratch. The Spirit isn’t like the Hulk or Batman, where movie companies can be persuaded to try a new approach because they feel the character is strong enough to draw in new audiences. Hell, they didn’t even have enough faith in Superman as a character to break from the Christopher Reeve film continuity. For 50 years, the window has been open to make a creditable film adaptation of the Spirit. That window has now been nailed shut. Now that I think about it… how did Lions Gate secure the rights to film the Spirit in the first place? Isn’t the character a DC/Warner Brothers property these days? Not that Warner’s would necessarily have done it any differently, but they do seem to rely slightly less on toilet-based violence than Lions Gate films do. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/16 "2008-12-27T00:36:21Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > It’s Miller’s own fault. He’s been getting this exact same criticism (that he’s just plugging characters into Sin City and calling it a day) at least since 2006 when All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder began. He knows exactly what he’s doing and doesn’t seem to care. I thought his respect for Eisner would keep him from totally shitting all over The Spirit, but apparently I was wrong. Definitely not arguing that this was anything but Miller shooting himself in the foot; the guy’s been on a self-indulgent downslide for years now (and I didn’t ever care for his writing or art much to start). Still think it’s sad, though, for Miller and Eisner, that more people are going to associate The Spirit with Miller’s creative thud than with the source material. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/17 "2008-12-27T01:02:59Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Now that I think about it… how did Lions Gate secure the rights to film the Spirit in the first place? Isn’t the character a DC/Warner Brothers property these days? Not that Warner’s would necessarily have done it any differently, but they do seem to rely slightly less on toilet-based violence than Lions Gate films do. Hard to tell. Eisner owned the Spirit, and I’d be surprised if his estate was foolish enough to sell all rights to DC. I think the anger is simply because the comic could have made a pretty good movie by anyone who respected the source material. The worst thing about Miller is that he professed a great deal of respect for Eisner, but seems to show no respect at all for the character, even giving him a superpower when Eisner specifically wanted to avoid that. ---
**Author:** ![laughingboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@laughingboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laughingboy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/18 "2008-12-27T01:48:26Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Watching this preview makes me wonder why he didn’t just do Sin City 2 finally, when it’s painfully clear he wanted to. According to [imdb.com](http://imdb.com), Miller is working on both Sin City 2 and Sin City 3. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/19 "2008-12-27T04:47:39Z")
The Trib gave it one star. One. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/20 "2008-12-27T05:13:37Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Hard to tell. Eisner owned the Spirit, and I’d be surprised if his estate was foolish enough to sell all rights to DC. > > I think the anger is simply because the comic could have made a pretty good movie by anyone who respected the source material. The worst thing about Miller is that he professed a great deal of respect for Eisner, but seems to show no respect at all for the character, even giving him a superpower when Eisner specifically wanted to avoid that. Are we SURE that Miller isn’t getting vengeance on Eisner for some perceived slight, then? I mean, really, really sure? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660.md?page=2)