# Frank Miller's "The Spirit" crashes and burns, hard... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 25, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660 "2008-12-25T17:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/41 "2008-12-28T17:36:45Z")
Darwyn Cooke’s excellent recent Spirit comics proved that Ebony White just needed to be drawn differently and given better dialog to work fine in modern comics, _and_ that you can set Spirit stories in modern times without losing his distinct atmosphere. When you see how effortless he made modern Spirit stories look, Miller’s movie is even more inexplicable. That said, I’m totally seeing it today. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/42 "2008-12-28T17:43:11Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! …I like you and you seem like a nice poster, so I will very respectfully agree to disagree with you. Strongly. I don’t think the window is quite nailed shut on a good _Spirit_ movie. If they could get the zeitgeist of the 50s into _Mad Men_ and the spirit of the 1930s during wartime into _Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day_, I think they can do it–get Darwyn Cooke to pen a script and someone like Christopher Nolan to direct. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/43 "2008-12-28T20:28:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Disappointment following heightened expectations? Also hate from purists who think Miller did to _The Spirit_ what Veerhoeven did to _Starship Troopers._ Hmm, I suppose I can see that. I didn’t know much about the source material, so I didn’t really have any expectations stemming from that. I loved _Sin City_, but I think Robert Rodriguez played a large role in making that movie _GREAT_, and not just stylistically impressive. I liked _The Spirit_ for more than simple aesthetics, but the visual style did play a large role in my enjoyment of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/44 "2008-12-28T21:26:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Disappointment following heightened expectations? Also hate from purists who think Miller did to _The Spirit_ what Veerhoeven did to _Starship Troopers._ Weirdly, I liked both the ST movie and the book. What does that make me? ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/45 "2008-12-28T21:28:38Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > …I like you and you seem like a nice poster, so I will very respectfully agree to disagree with you. Strongly. By all means, I’m happy to argue my case that \*Constantine \*was great. I loved it and all the friends I’ve watched it with loved it, and I know that it was a complete departure from the source material (some of which I’ve read) but I thought it was a good film that I thoroughly enjoyed. Clearly YMDV, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/46 "2008-12-28T21:30:48Z")
I saw it on Saturday and, honestly, hated it. Hated hated hated. And not just because I like the original comics; I do, but I knew going in that it wouldn’t be doing more than paying lip service to them, so I looked at it as a totally different animal (I even appreciated one little Eisner nod; one of the locations is on Dropsy Ave.). The main reason I hated it was that it suffered from Frank Miller’s recent problem, which is that if he thinks something (a moment, a line, an action, a shot) will be cool, he does it, with absolutely no regard to stylistic concerns, plot concerns, or concerns if it even fits into the timeline or world that he himself has made. It’s one of the thing that makes “All Star Batman and Robin” so hilariously bad (there’s an issue of that where, if you follow the timeline, Batman and Robin are apparently in the Batmobile for three days straight) and it did the same to this movie. Weird samurai Samuel Jackson moment? Do it. Three characters in a row emerging from the water in the exact same slo-mo “intsense” shot? Do it. A cloned foot with a tiny head on it jumping around throughout a scene? Absolutely. A copy machine in a movie that by every other indication is set in the 1940s? “Well, I think it’d be neat to have Eva Mendes Xerox her ass, so let’s do it.” Basically, the movie gives one undeniable message: Frank Miller Does Not Give a Shit. Which is fine, I guess (and Eva Mendes’ ass is quite delightful), but you’re not allowed to throw a bunch of visually unintelligible sequences together just because they’re “cool,” and them claim that you actually want to do your mentor’s legacy proud. God I hated that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/47 "2008-12-28T21:38:48Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Clearly YMDV, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t like it. Of course not. I get where you’re coming from–I like _V for Vendetta_ the graphic novel and _V for Vendetta_ the movie, as two separate unrelated works of art. It’s all good, we can find something else to agree on. 🙂 Back to the OP: Now that Frank Miller set us up the bomb, is there any chance of a comeback in Hollywood? Is _Sin City 2_ still viable? ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/48 "2008-12-28T22:04:57Z")
I saw _The Spirit_ last night. It’s more really bizarre than really bad, in my opinion. There’s a lot of WTF? visuals and odd moments, especially from Jackson and Johansson’s villains (although Paz Vega very nearly upstages them both in terms of sheer crazy). Macht is wonderful – he’s gorgeous, he’s charming, and totally sells Denny. I cannot wait to see more of him, and I hope that he won’t be blacklisted along with the movie. Static as Morgenstern is also great in what could’ve been a throwaway role, and if you’re expecting your average Miller femme fatale, you may be pleasantly surprised by her. She plays a smart, capable, funny “rookie” cop. Besides that, the movie LOOKS amazing. If anything, it’s even more beautiful than _Sin City_. Almost any random frame could be a work of art. Some of the standout sequences are the Spirit running across the rooftops of Central City, his seducing Dr. Dolan in her office (probably the most beautiful that closing blinds has ever looked), the Octopus and Silken in their Japanese costumes, and the Lorelei sequence. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/49 "2008-12-28T22:06:20Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > It’s all good, we can find something else to agree on. 🙂 Yay, hugs all around! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/50 "2008-12-28T22:22:37Z")
> [@Jester](#): > > A copy machine in a movie that by every other indication is set in the 1940s? “Well, I think it’d be neat to have Eva Mendes Xerox her ass, so let’s do it.” This I’m quoting because it brings up something that I forgot to mention in my post – _The Spirit_’s anachronisms. The xerox machine is only one memorable one: we also see characters using Nokia cameras and cell phones. _The Spirit_ appears to be set in a world where the 1940s aesthetic never ended, so we have '40s-era noir fashions existing alongside modern technology. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660/51 "2008-12-29T04:04:32Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > No more than Batman’s or any of the hard-boiled detectives of the time. > > Remember, there were different standards at the time, and “realism” did not mean what we mean today. So even if it was unlikely for him to survive the damage if this was a real person, it was not unrealistic of supernatural for a fictional character. Still, it goes beyond reality and gets close to crossing the line of supernatural. But his ability in the comic was not at all like the movie, or Wolverine, I’ll grant you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-millers-the-spirit-crashes-and-burns-hard/478660.md?page=2)