# Frank Schaeffer, Co-founder of the Religious Right Movement Tells His Story **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459 "2008-12-09T22:18:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/1 "2008-12-09T22:18:52Z")
On another of my interminable drives to a client meeting this evening, I heard Frank Schaeffer on NPR’s Fresh Air program talk about his book Crazy for God. He delves forthrightly into his past, what brought him to promoting the politicization of the evangelical movement, and why, ultimately, he denounced it. I was absolutely riveted. I found his story interesting and troubling at the same time. It is definitely worth checking out. [Read an excerpt and take a listen here.](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97998654) My questions, which most assuredly will turn into a debate, are: What do you think it’d take for the rank and file of Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists to ultimately see the light and denounce the destructive element that has co-opted their faith for political ends, and how long will the Republicans remain in the wilderness before they wake up out of their fugue and wrest control back from the Christian opportunists. As additional fodder for this discussion, **Shayna** , as informative as usual, posted an excerpt [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10370185&postcount=59) back on October 28, from an[interesting article Shaeffer wrote for HuffPo](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/frank-as-a-former-pro-lif_b_119435.html). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/2 "2008-12-10T01:02:50Z")
“Co-Founder”? I thought the RR was the creature of Jerry Falwell & some domestic politicians, not of the son of an expat missionary. (I quite like Frank Schaeffer. Were I still an Xtian, I might have followed him into Eastern Orthodoxy.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/3 "2008-12-10T01:57:04Z")
What **foolsguinea** said. Frank Schaeffer and his parents may have been present at the creation of the Religious Right, but Falwell and Robertson were going to make it happen anyway. Francis Schaeffer (Frank’s more famous dad) may have added a bit of pseudo-intellectual and spiritual cred in the early going, but BFD really. I can’t say I ever read Schaeffer, but I knew enough people at college in the early 1970s who did, and they were filled with all sorts of bullshit about how the Enlightenment was bad, and that the late Middle Ages were just wonderful. I gathered at the time that this particular strand of bullshit originated with Francis Schaeffer, but I can’t say for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/4 "2008-12-10T04:58:44Z")
From what I understand, Falwell himself said that if it weren’t for Francis Schaeffer the Religious Right wouldn’t exist, or something along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/5 "2008-12-10T05:00:42Z")
Yeah, maybe. But Francis Schaeffer & Frank Schaeffer (whom we used to call Frankie Schaeffer) are two different men. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/6 "2008-12-10T05:10:44Z")
True, but based on the NPR interview, Frank himself said it was he who brought his father Francis to the dark side. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/7 "2008-12-10T05:30:22Z")
I only heard part of the interview, but the most interesting piece was him saying that while Wright got raked over the coals for what Schaeffer considered mild preaching, his father called for a revolution against abortion rights, and got invited to the Reagan White House. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/8 "2008-12-10T05:40:42Z")
Yep. There are other gems in that interview which, IMO, should be required listening by the Religious Right and Republican party faithful. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/9 "2008-12-10T18:48:43Z")
Barb and I went to high school with Jon, the son of Frank’s Aunt Elsa (his mother’s sister, Francis’s sister-in-law). We came to know Elsa relatively well during our years at the same church she and her husband attended. That said, Karen Armstrong tells in one of her books of the partnership between the Schaeffers and Falwell to move the evangelical/fundamentalist alliance towards a more politically active stance – precisely what gave rise to the Religious Right that has plagued American politics since. I have neither the book nor a good reference to it, but remember reading it with interest. ---
**Author:** ![bobthebuilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobthebuilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobthebuilder)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/10 "2008-12-10T18:59:12Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What **foolsguinea** said. Frank Schaeffer and his parents may have been present at the creation of the Religious Right, but Falwell and Robertson were going to make it happen anyway. Francis Schaeffer (Frank’s more famous dad) may have added a bit of pseudo-intellectual and spiritual cred in the early going, but BFD really. > . Its a bit of a stretch to call Francis Schaeffer pseudo-intellectual. He was an intellectual though you may disagree with him. Is D.A. Carson also only a pseudo-intellectual? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/11 "2008-12-10T20:14:43Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > My questions, which most assuredly will turn into a debate, are: What do you think it’d take for the rank and file of Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists to ultimately see the light and denounce the destructive element that has co-opted their faith for political ends, and how long will the Republicans remain in the wilderness before they wake up out of their fugue and wrest control back from the Christian opportunists. The idea that the religious right has been running the Republican Party and completely excluding everyone else in recent times is simply wrong. Let’s define the period of Republican ascendancy as 1980 to 2006, in other words Reagan’s election to the Republican loss of Congress. Now let’s ask which factions of the Republican Party achieved what they wanted during that time. Economic conservatives achieved quite a bit: many major tax cuts across a broad range (income tax, dividends, estate tax, and so forth), major reduction of the welfare system, rollback of countless regulations, effective neutering of regulatory agencies, and substantial success against affirmative action. Neocons also achieved quite bit, most notably massive military spending and their own private war in Iraq. The religious right achieved nothing. The USA moved to the left on all their pet issues during that period. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/12 "2008-12-10T20:52:25Z")
The electorate moved to the left, but the party and its apparatus moved further to the right and, more or less, chucked its centrists, largely to appeal to (appease?) social conservatives and their agenda. Although you’re correct in that ultimately the RR acheived very little benefit long-term, in the short term they got seats at many tables and were able to infiltrate and work to change the dynamic/philosophy/practices of certain departments…Justice anyone? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/13 "2008-12-10T21:49:27Z")
> [@bobthebuilder](#): > > Its a bit of a stretch to call Francis Schaeffer pseudo-intellectual. He was an intellectual though you may disagree with him. > Is D.A. Carson also only a pseudo-intellectual? Who?? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/14 "2008-12-12T04:32:16Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > That said, Karen Armstrong tells in one of her books of the partnership between the Schaeffers and Falwell to move the evangelical/fundamentalist alliance towards a more politically active stance – precisely what gave rise to the Religious Right that has plagued American politics since. I have neither the book nor a good reference to it, but remember reading it with interest. Riiiiight. The Religious Right exists solely because Falwell and the Schaeffers opportunistically and cynically pushed Christians rightward. I KNOW you’re smarter than that, Poly (though Karen Armstrong may not be). In truth, the Religious Right has always existed. It just never attracted much notice, because until a few decades ago, practically EVERYBODY agreed with the basic “family values” tenets espoused by the Right. White Southern Baptists were just as socially conservative in 1952 and 1956 as they are today, but most of them voted for the liberal, divorced, non-religious Democrat Adlai Stevenson. Why? Because, in those days, liberal Democrats were no more inclined to support gay marriage, abortion on demand, legalized pornography, or the abolition of prayer in public schools than were conservative Republicans! Hence, religious conservatives were free to ignore the social issues and vote their pocketbooks- which is why almost all of them were staunch Democrats for so long. Until relatively recently, practically EVERYBODY agreed on the basic family values. Face it, in 1972, if Nixon had tried to suggest that George McGovern and Ted Kennedy were supporters of gay marriage, George and Ted would have LAUGHED at the idea, and suggested that Nixon was delusional. There was no NEED for a Religious Right until the secular left began imposing its own agenda, largely via the unelected justices of the Supreme Court. JErry Falwell would probably have told you that he and his followers never desired to “plague” anyone. They just couldn’t stand by and allow their traditional values (which, again, it seemed practically EVERYBODY shared until an hour ago) to be thrown away without so much as a peep being raised in protest. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/15 "2008-12-12T04:51:25Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Riiiiight. The Religious Right exists solely because Falwell and the Schaeffers opportunistically and cynically pushed Christians rightward. That’s not what the post said. The post said Falwell and Schaeffer were major forces in making the Religious Right more _politically active_. And in the rest of your post, you indicate that you _agree_ with Armstrong and the post you’re responding to on this point. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/16 "2008-12-12T04:53:51Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > There was no NEED for a Religious Right until the secular left began imposing its own agenda “Imposing?” :dubious: > [@](#): > > “You don’t like the Goths?” > “No! Not with the persecution we have to put up with!” > “Persecution?” Padway raised his eyebrows. > “Religious persecution. We wont stand for it forever.” > “I thought the Goths let everybody worship as they pleased.” > “That’s just it! We Orthodox are forced to stand around and watch Arians and Monophysites and Nestorians and Jews going about their business unmolested, as if they owned the country. If that isn’t persecution, I’d like to know what is!” > – L. Sprague deCamp (_Lest Darkness Fall_) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/17 "2008-12-12T04:59:57Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Riiiiight. The Religious Right exists solely because Falwell and the Schaeffers opportunistically and cynically pushed Christians rightward. This is not what Polycarp said. There is no claim that anyone “cynically pushed” anyone. The claim is that Falwell and the Schaeffers made a point of encouraging elements of Christian conservatives to become actively engaged in politics to promote their own goals. The “plague” comment is clearly Polycarp’s opinion of the result, but all he claimed as a factual event was the effort to “move the evangelical/fundamentalist alliance towards a more politically active stance.” If you think that Falwell had no part in moving that bloc toward a more politically active stance, then you need to go read recent American history. Regardless how one views the Religious Right (_i.e._, a specific political movement in the U.S.), it did not simply come ito being through spontaneous generation–it required a lot of serious effort. Attacking Polycarp for simply noting whom might have participated in the founding of that political movement (separate from the personal beliefs of its members), is simply silly and pointless. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/18 "2008-12-12T05:09:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Regardless how one views the Religious Right (_i.e._, a specific political movement in the U.S.), it did not simply come ito being through spontaneous generation–it required a lot of serious effort. Attacking Polycarp for simply noting whom might have participated in the founding of that political movement (separate from the personal beliefs of its members), is simply silly and pointless. Not as silly and pointless as the OP’s expectation that the leftward migration of Franklin Schaeffer (whom 99% of religious conservatives have never heard of) has any implications for people who remain part of the Religious Right. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/19 "2008-12-12T05:21:08Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Not as silly and pointless as the OP’s expectation that the leftward migration of Franklin Schaeffer (whom 99% of religious conservatives have never heard of) has any implications for people who remain part of the Religious Right. That a large number of people are unaware of one of the founders of the political movement they support may say more about that group than you want to admit. OTOH, I would agree that hearing Mr. Schaeffer would probably have little effect on the majority of members of that group as they would more likely view him as an apostate than as a person whose eyes have been opened. (I would not particularly fault them for that. I do not know of any group who has been persuaded _en masse_ to throw over their beliefs simply because some prominent member(s) may have had a reversal of opinion. Certainly few on the Left followed when the original neo-cons switched sides to join the Right.) It would probably be more fruitful to inquire about the numbers of the younger generation of the Religious Right who have recently begun to break ranks with the old guard over issues such as the environment, coservation, and social justice. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459/20 "2008-12-12T05:39:03Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Attacking Polycarp for simply noting **whom** might have participated in the founding of that political movement (separate from the personal beliefs of its members), is simply silly and pointless. Warning: grammar nitpick ahead. I’m sure it was an oversight, but it should be “who,” not “whom.” > [@tomndebb](#): > > OTOH, I would agree that hearing Mr. Schaeffer would probably have little effect on the majority of members of that group as they would more likely view him as an apostate than as a person whose eyes have been opened. (I would not particularly fault them for that. I do not know of any group who has been persuaded _en masse_ to throw over their beliefs simply because some prominent member(s) may have had a reversal of opinion.) Speaking of this, and public radio, This American Life last week featured a story originally aired three years ago, about a Pentecostal preacher named Carlton Pearson who was involved in a scandal: he stopped believing in hell. It’s an engrossing story, and illustrates your point. [http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio\_Episode.aspx?sched=1273](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1273) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-schaeffer-co-founder-of-the-religious-right-movement-tells-his-story/476459.md?page=2)