# Frank Sinatra Says The Lady Is a Tramp; He's Insulting Her, Right?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 25, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649 "2012-08-25T22:40:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/1 "2012-08-25T22:40:01Z")
My understanding of 50’s-era slang is limited. When Frank sings “That’s why the lady is a tramp,” is he insulting her? To me it sounds like he’s calling her a low-class broad.
Or does (did) tramp mean something else in this context?
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### Author:  [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/2 "2012-08-25T22:44:18Z")
A close reading of the lyrics suggests that what he means is, “That’s why other people call the lady a tramp.” As in, she won’t conform to society’s expectations, so everyone disapproves of her.
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### Author:  [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/3 "2012-08-25T23:00:40Z")
**Chef Troy** got it. Because the lady in question does such “low-class” things as go to the beach at Coney Island and eat dinner earlier than 8 p.m., that’s obviously a sign that she’s of weak moral fiber, right?
The sarcasm/irony/whatever doesn’t really read in the song the way that most people sing it. But the lyrics themselves are much clearer.
I read somewhere that some singers would change the last line of the song to “this chick is a champ,” just to make sure the audience got it.
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### Author:  [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/4 "2012-08-25T23:18:04Z")
Please note that the original, from the musical _Babes in Arms_, was sung in the first person by the “tramp” in question:
> [@](#):
>
> I get too hungry, for dinner at eight
> I like the theater, but never come late
> I never bother, with people I hate
> That’s why the lady is a tramp
[Note the pronoun used here]
It’s really a song of an independent thinker who doesn’t really care what the hoity-toity upper class thinks of her.
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/5 "2012-08-25T23:33:56Z")
Yes, although “tramp” is/was an insult word, it is intended ironically, and the song is actually saying that she is an admirable, free-spirited lady with a mind of her own.
Having said that, I will admit that at one time I somehow got the idea that she was a jet-setter who thought nothing of going all the way to Hungary to have dinner at 8. :o
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### Author:  [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/6 "2012-08-26T01:23:43Z")
The kicker (in the original version — Sinatra bowdlerized it) is the ending:
I’m all alone when I lower my lamp.
That’s why the lady is a tramp.
In other words, the upper-crustaceans who call her a tramp are all sleeping around and she’s not.
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### Author:  [@dinahmoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinahmoe)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/7 "2012-08-26T01:47:49Z")
This was the song I chose for my father/daughter dance at my wedding (didn’t happen, long story, he’s passed away). My dad was totally on board, the song sums me up pretty well.
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### Author:  [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/8 "2012-08-26T12:31:32Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#):
>
> My understanding of 50’s-era slang is limited. When Frank sings “That’s why the lady is a tramp,” is he insulting her? To me it sounds like he’s calling her a low-class broad.
>
> Or does (did) tramp mean something else in this context?
The song was written in the 1930s by Rodgers and Hart. As others have said, tramp is meant to be a free spirited person who doesn’t conform to the narrow-mindedness of others
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/9 "2012-08-26T14:16:50Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#):
>
> The song was written in the 1930s by Rodgers and Hart. As others have said, tramp is meant to be a free spirited person who doesn’t conform to the narrow-mindedness of others
No it isn’t, and that is not at all what others have been saying. “Tramp” _was_ an insult (meaning something like “slut” or even “hooker” at its strongest), but the point of the song is that the lady in question, although at risk of being taken for a tramp by some, is not really one at all, but is in fact an admirable free-spirit.
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### Author:  [@Slade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slade)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/10 "2012-08-26T15:23:35Z")
It’s obvious from Sinatra’s delivery in the song that he means the description in an affectionate way. He’s saying: “She’s got no airs and graces about her, she’s down to earth - that may offend the snobs, but I think she’s great.”
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/11 "2012-08-26T15:31:11Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> No it isn’t, and that is not at all what others have been saying. “Tramp” _was_ an insult (meaning something like “slut” or even “hooker” at its strongest), but the point of the song is that the lady in question, although at risk of being taken for a tramp by some, is not really one at all, but is in fact an admirable free-spirit.
Doesn’t it mean both, though? I mean what about _Lady and the Tramp_? I doubt Disney would have chosen a name meaning whore.
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/12 "2012-08-26T15:40:42Z")
> [@Cayuga](#):
>
> The kicker (in the original version — Sinatra bowdlerized it) is the ending:
>
> I’m all alone when I lower my lamp.
> That’s why the lady is a tramp.
>
> In other words, the upper-crustaceans who call her a tramp are all sleeping around and she’s not.
That line is like the joke about the difference between a whore and a bitch.
A whore sleeps with everybody.
A bitch sleeps with everybody but you.
In the song the guy is pissed because she isn’t sleeping with him. So he calls her a tramp.
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### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/13 "2012-08-26T15:48:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Doesn’t it mean both, though? I mean what about _Lady and the Tramp_? I doubt Disney would have chosen a name meaning whore.
In that case, the tramp is a male - so they’re saying a hobo, or probably more correctly in that case, homeless.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/14 "2012-08-26T15:56:10Z")
The song actually [dates to 1937](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_Is_a_Tramp), appearing in Rodgers and Hart’s _Babes in Arms_. Exactly when did Sinatra record his version? Because I’m wondering if he was capitalizing on the animated film _Lady and the Tramp_, which came out in 1955.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/15 "2012-08-26T16:10:03Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> The song actually [dates to 1937](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_Is_a_Tramp), appearing in Rodgers and Hart’s _Babes in Arms_. Exactly when did Sinatra record his version? Because I’m wondering if he was capitalizing on the animated film _Lady and the Tramp_, which came out in 1955.
[1956](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Frank_Sinatra#L)
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/16 "2012-08-26T16:13:59Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> The song actually [dates to 1937](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_Is_a_Tramp), appearing in Rodgers and Hart’s _Babes in Arms_. Exactly when did Sinatra record his version? Because I’m wondering if he was capitalizing on the animated film _Lady and the Tramp_, which came out in 1955.
> [@hajario](#):
>
> [1956](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Frank_Sinatra#L)
Well, there ya go.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/17 "2012-08-26T16:40:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Doesn’t it mean both, though? I mean what about _Lady and the Tramp_? I doubt Disney would have chosen a name meaning whore.
From Merriam-Webster:
> [@](#):
>
> tramp _noun_
>
> a : vagrant 1a
> b : a foot traveler
> c : a woman of loose morals; specifically : prostitute
It’s very clear from the context that definition c is what’s meant in the song, but it’s intended ironically. Others perceive the woman as being a tramp because she doesn’t conform to high-class behavior, but she’s really not.
In the Disney movie, the Tramp is a male stray, and definition a is clearly meant.
> [@Rick](#):
>
> That line is like the joke about the difference between a whore and a bitch.
> A whore sleeps with everybody.
> A bitch sleeps with everybody but you.
> In the song the guy is pissed because she isn’t sleeping with him. So he calls her a tramp.
Have you even listened to the song? That line doesn’t appear in the [Sinatra version.](http://www.elyrics.net/read/f/frank-sinatra-lyrics/the-lady-is-a-tramp-lyrics.html) It’s clear that the singer admires and feels affection for the lady in question. There’s no indication that he _isn’t_ sleeping with her.
In the[original version,](http://www.lorenzhart.org/trampsng.htm) where that lyric appears, it’s sung by the woman herself.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/18 "2012-08-26T16:48:40Z")
Yes, then Disney Tramp is clearly not even close to any other sort of tramp that might be suggested by the song. But the movie was popular, and I can just see Ol’ Blue eyes sitting there thinking: “Hey, the movie title brings to mind that song. I think I’ll sing it anew.”
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/19 "2012-08-26T18:36:35Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#):
>
> Please note that the original, from the musical _Babes in Arms_, was sung in the first person by the “tramp” in question:
In the Great Depression era original, it refers explicitly to the “hobo/vagrant” meaning in several places.
> [@](#):
>
> I’ve wined and dined on Mulligan stew
> And never wished for turkey
> As I hitched and hiked and grifted, too,
> From Maine to Albuquerque.
>
> …
>
> But social circles spin too fast for me.
> My Hobohemia is the place to be.
>
> …
>
> I like to hang my hat where I please.
> Sail with the breeze.
> No dough-heigh-ho!
> I love La Guardia and think he’s a champ.
> That’ s why the lady is a tramp.
The character, Bunny Byron is [described this way:](http://www.guidetomusicaltheatre.com/shows_b/babes_in_arms.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> BUNNY BYRON - A mousy lady who is pushed around by Fleming but very popular with the kids and secretly harbours ambitions to act and generally ‘let rip’.
In this version, it seems that the singer thinks she is looked down on mainly for being poor.
In the Sinatra version, however, I think the “loose woman” meaning is what’s implied.
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### Author:  [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frank-sinatra-says-the-lady-is-a-tramp-hes-insulting-her-right/632649/20 "2012-08-27T12:49:43Z")
She should just get a lower back tattoo and end the speculation.
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