# Franklin Graham: A Chip Off the Old Blockhead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816 "2005-10-05T01:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/41 "2005-10-05T16:36:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Franklin is also a moron because he doesn’t know that Mardi Gras is a Christian holiday… The respect for Lent is what makes it Christian, not the party _per se_). It’s _Catholic_; not Christian. Real Christians, like the Baptists, don’t do anything special for Lent. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/42 "2005-10-05T16:38:26Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > It’s _Catholic_; not Christian. Real Christians, like the Baptists, don’t do anything special for Lent. :dubious: With any luck, I’m being whooshed here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/43 "2005-10-05T16:42:14Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > :dubious: With any luck, I’m being whooshed here. Yoiu are…unless **Homebrew** has recently undergone some kind of dramatic conversion. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/44 "2005-10-05T16:43:32Z")
Yes. I’m mocking fundaloonies, many of whom don’t believe Catholics are Christians. In fact, many Evangelical Sects teach, as did the Church I grew up in, that the RCC is the Whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/45 "2005-10-05T16:50:12Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The only problem with that is that under Franklin’s belief system God CREATED the bad circumstances. The “evil” was his own idea and his own doing. You can’t say God is just making lemons into lemonade when he made the lemons himself. So now you dictate what others belief system is? Does your arrogance know any bounds? > [@](#): > > It is impossible to say that God both created and is “using” a storm for religious purposes without necessarily also saying that God sent the storm for a reason. As long as you believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, you’re stuck with the storm being “part of god’s plan.” Can you point out the logical fallacy in that little peice of heaven? God can do anything but it’s impossible for Him to do something? And you seem to be more dense han usual **DtC**. The whole point is that apparently Graham is saying that he does not think that God sent the storm. Uness you have a cite where Graham says that God dictates everything, then it seems to me that you have a false dichotomy in your premise. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/46 "2005-10-05T16:59:23Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > If you do not think that a fundy Christian would have cause to take umbrage to what goes on during the Mardi Gras’ goddamned _ **revelry** _, then you are too fucking ignorant to have an opinion on this subject. I have been known to describe myself as as “Fundie” in the past, and I’ve seen office parties where there was more flat-out “Sinning” going on than at Mardi Gras. I read the OP’s quote as Franklin waffling spendidly. He says, “New Orleans is an evil place” without going on to say, “…and it deserved God’s punishment”. But I think that’s the clear intent–the subtext–of what he’s saying. You can nitpick semantically about what he actually “said”–because it’s true, he didn’t actually _say_ that God sent the hurricane specifically to punish NOLA–but I think it’s clear where he’s coming from. As long as we’re pitting Franklin Graham, can I add his [Operation Christmas Child](http://www.samaritanspurse.org/OCC_Index.asp) to the pile-on? This is where you fill up a shoebox with Dollar Store toys ‘n’ stuff, and it gets sent to po’ folks chillun in the Third World. I have never, ever understood why he thinks it’s somehow worthwhile to send Hello Kitty ponytail holders and Pokemon trading cards to children who probably don’t have clean water to drink. Couldn’t that $25 worth of stuff be channeled into better, more lasting uses than providing plastic trinkets for Colombian slum kids? And they sent out 7.4 million boxes last year, which if I did the math right adds up to $185,000,000. You can dig a lot of water wells, and buy a lot of antibiotics, for $185,000,000. And the list of “recommended gifts” is baffling, every year, in its cheerful, cluelessly imperialistic assumptions of what Third World chillun need, not least of which is the bland assumption that what all children everywhere need is a shitload of plastic toys on December 25 every year. “Oh, those poor kids! They’re not going to get any Christmas presents! Let’s send them a flashlight! And a Slinky!” The recommendation of “socks” baffles me every year, too–people who don’t have shoes don’t customarily wear socks, Franklin. And who wants to get “socks” in their Christmas package? Soap, toothpaste, combs–“You Africans don’t have any soap over there, so we’ll send ya some.” And ditto for “a new toothbrush” being a less-than-optimal Christmas present, for anyone, First World or Third World. And its imperialistic assumption that an impoverished Third World kid is so unsophisticated that he won’t realize that the colorful plastic thing the Americans sent him for Christmas is just a toothbrush. And the assumption that he’s supposed to be impressed by it, “Wow! A colorful plastic toothbrush!” But what really gets me, every time, is the scrupulous reminder that toys that require batteries should have extra batteries included. They don’t seem to realize that even _those_ batteries will eventually wear out, and then the kid is _still_ left with a worthless toy. Send the kid something that won’t become totally useless in a couple of days when the batteries run down, like a ball or a jumprope. I dunno, I just have problems with the whole concept, but I dutifully fill up a couple of shoeboxes every year with balls and jumpropes and marbles and plastic chess sets, because I am a Team Player, and I feel sorry for the Church Lady who runs the thing at our church. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/47 "2005-10-05T17:04:05Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Yes. I’m mocking fundaloonies, many of whom don’t believe Catholics are Christians. In fact, many Evangelical Sects teach, as did the Church I grew up in, that the RCC is the Whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation. Yeah, I knew that, I was having trouble wrapping my brain around the statement coming from you. I should have known better; I blame that I’m working in COBOL today and my mind is fritzing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/48 "2005-10-05T17:37:00Z")
“I’m not saying ‘A,’ but ‘A!’” And _we’re_ the ones who can’t read? Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/49 "2005-10-05T18:17:52Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > So now you dictate what others belief system is? Does your arrogance know any bounds? I’m not “dictating” anything, simpleton, I’m only citing what fundies themselves say they believe. If God is all powerful and all knowing then God controls the weather. If God controls the weather (or at least CAN control the weather) and is also omniscient, then no storm can happen without God’s will. Why do you think they call the “acts of God?” Is this something you disagree with? Do fundies NOT believe that God has dominion over the weather? > [@](#): > > Can you point out the logical fallacy in that little peice of heaven? God can do anything but it’s impossible for Him to do something? I didn’t say it was impossible for GOD to do _anything_, monkey brain. I said what it was impossible for FRANKLIN GRAHAM to do…to wit: that he can’t say that God can create and “use” a storm without having to acknowledge that the storm was God’s will. > [@](#): > > And you seem to be more dense han usual **DtC**. The whole point is that apparently Graham is saying that he does not think that God sent the storm. Uness you have a cite where Graham says that God dictates everything, then it seems to me that you have a false dichotomy in your premise. Yiu want a cite that fundies think God is all powerful? Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/50 "2005-10-05T19:01:35Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I said what it was impossible for FRANKLIN GRAHAM to do…to wit: that he can’t say that God can create and “use” a storm without having to acknowledge that the storm was God’s will. > > Yiu want a cite that fundies think God is all powerful? Are you serious? I could give a fuck what you think fundies believe. I want a cite where Graham says that God created the storm you obtuse moron. The cite above says he doesn’t think God sent it. You say that he has to believe that because he is a fundy, yet he said he doesn’t. That is arrogance, you twit. > [@](#): > > Do fundies NOT believe that God has dominion over the weather? Does Graham?I have yet to personally meet any fundy that said hurricanes were only devine conceptions. So no, not all fundies beleieve God has absolute dominion over weather. Science proves otherwise. I have read of a few that proclaim God’s Judgement whenever a natural disaster strikes. It is apparent that Graham specifically said he doesn’t believe that. Still you put up a strawman to say it’s impossible for him to say that. That is fucking arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/51 "2005-10-05T19:47:46Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Does Graham?I have yet to personally meet any fundy that said hurricanes were only devine conceptions. **So no, not all fundies beleieve God has absolute dominion over weather.** Science proves otherwise. I have read of a few that proclaim God’s Judgement whenever a natural disaster strikes. It is apparent that Graham specifically said he doesn’t believe that. Still you put up a strawman to say it’s impossible for him to say that. That is fucking arrogance. So, you’re saying that God, in Graham’s belief system, is powerful enough to _create the entire universe through an act of will_, but not powerful enough to affect the weather? Sorry, as amusing as it is to watch you try to argue Christian theology with **Diogenes** , you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Graham has publically professed faith in a particular religion. This religion has a number of tenents, including the idea that God is all powerful and that everything that happens is according to God’s plan. Unless you can find a cite of Franklin Graham specifically disavowing those portions of his professed faith, it is not at all arrogant to assume he believes them. God caused that storm, just like he causes everything that happens in the universe, outside of exercises in human free will (I’m pretty sure Graham’s particular flavor of Christianity still believes in free will - I might be wrong there.) If God is going to, in Graham’s own words, “use that storm to bring revival,” and if God is directly responsible for the exsistance of that storm, then yes, he _is_ saying that the storm was divine judgement. His earlier statement was simply double-speak to avoid the controversy that folks like Jerry Falwell called on themselves with similar comments about 9/11 and the tsunami. Pathetically transparent double-speak, at that, which makes your insults about other people’s reading abilities particularly amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/52 "2005-10-05T20:00:51Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > I could give a fuck what you think fundies believe. I’m not telling you what I “think,” Special Ed, I’m telling you what I _know_. > [@](#): > > I want a cite where Graham says that God created the storm you obtuse moron. Hey, fucking imbecile, Graham’s a Southern Baptist, is he not? From the [Southern Baptist Convention](http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp) > [@](#): > > God is all powerful and all knowing; and His perfect knowledge extends to all things, past, present, and future Southern Baptists (like most Christians) believe that God is both omnipotent and omniscient. If you believe this, you logically MUST believe that nothing can happen without God’s will. According to Frankie Graham’s own doctrine (as cited above) God knew that hurricane was going to hit the gulf coast before he created the world. he created the atmosphere and the climates that led to it. He could have stopped it anytime he wanted and chose not to. No matter how you look at it, the hurricane was God’s will and could not have happened _without_ God’s will. > [@](#): > > The cite above says he doesn’t think God sent it. You say that he has to believe that because he is a fundy, yet he said he doesn’t. That is arrogance, you twit. he did NOT say he DOESN’T think God sent the hurricane, he just said “I’m not saying that he did,” which is not really saying anything and which is belied by the fact that he thinks God is “using” a storm which he knew about beforehand and had complete dominion over. > [@](#): > > Does Graham?I have yet to personally meet any fundy that said hurricanes were only devine conceptions. So no, not all fundies beleieve God has absolute dominion over weather. I don’t think you know what “dominion” means. It doesn’t mean that everything is necessarily directly controlled by God, but it does mean that God CAN intervene and control the weather anytime he wants. See Matthew 8:24-27. No hurricane can exist unless God allows it to exist. Nothing can happen without God’s will. This is an inescapable conclusion for anyone who thinks God is both all powerful and all knowing. > [@](#): > > Science proves otherwise. Actually, in this case it doesn’t. Science cannot prove that something was not God’s will. > [@](#): > > I have read of a few that proclaim God’s Judgement whenever a natural disaster strikes. It is apparent that Graham specifically said he doesn’t believe that. No he didn’t. > [@](#): > > Still you put up a strawman to say it’s impossible for him to say that. That is fucking arrogance. It’s impossible for him to believe in God’s omnipotence and omniscience while also believing that hurricanes can happen without God’s will…or at least, it’s impossible for him to believe those things while being logically consistent. People often do believe contradictory things and Graham is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. It’s possible that I’ve given his beliefs more thought than he has. Regardless of his illogical and contradictory statements about the storm, Graham can fairly be called a moron for his statements about Voodoo and homosexuality alone (as well as other stupid, bigoted shit he’s said in the past. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/53 "2005-10-05T20:10:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, you’re saying that God, in Graham’s belief system, is powerful enough to _create the entire universe through an act of will_, but not powerful enough to affect the weather? I said God is not powerful enough to affect the weather? Did I say what I thought Graham thinks Gods limits are? Please quit pulling shit out of your ass. It’s pathetic that you seem to think that **DtC** is some authority on a specific persons belief system. And your sophomoric approach that Christianity, even it’s fundamentalist thinkers, is some sort of monolithic entity that all must adhere to your precepts is beyond ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/54 "2005-10-05T21:07:25Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > I said God is not powerful enough to affect the weather? Did I say what I thought Graham thinks Gods limits are? Please quit pulling shit out of your ass. You speculated on what Graham might think God’s limits are, yes. You said, “Not all fundies beleieve God has absolute dominion over weather.” This would be in direct contradiction to many of the core tenets of Christian fundamentalism in general, and Southern Baptists in particular. Franklin Graham is not only a publically professed Southern Baptist, he is the son of the foremost Southern Baptist preacher living today, and is a Southern Baptist preacher himself. So, it doesn’t seem entirely unfair to assume that Franklin Graham believes that God does, in fact, have dominion over the weather. If you have evidence to the contrary, that’s great. Present it so we can modify our understanding of Graham’s beliefs and move on. > [@](#): > > It’s pathetic that you seem to think that **DtC** is some authority on a specific persons belief system. That’s because he _is_ an authority on the subject. If Graham doesn’t hold the beliefs **Diogenes** is attributing to him, then he is majorly out of step with the teachings of his own religion. Which is certainly not impossible, but I’d like to see some evidence of that first. You got any? > [@](#): > > And your sophomoric approach that Christianity, even it’s fundamentalist thinkers, is some sort of monolithic entity that all must adhere to your precepts is beyond ignorant. Sorry, but there are, in fact, a few precepts that one _must_ adhere to if one is going to define himself as a Christian fundamentalist. Like the divinity of Jesus Christ, to grab the most obvious example. A belief in the omnipotence, omniesciene, and infalliablity of God would be another. There’s certainly room to quibble over some other stuff, such as “God hates fags,” or “All non-Christians go to hell.” You could definetly argue that those are not necessary tenants of fundamental Christianity. “God is all powerful and all knowing, and Jesus was his Son” is pretty much non-negotiable. And if God is all powerful and all knowing, then he knew what would happen when Katrina hit New Orleans, and he could have prevented it if he had wanted. He did not. Graham says that “God is going to use that storm to bring revival. God has a plan. God has a purpose.” Which means that God allowed New Orleans to be wiped out so it could be rebuilt as a less sinful, more spiritual city. In other words, **Katrina was God’s judgement on New Orleans.** That’s the plain text meaning of what Graham said. This means that his earlier protestation, “I’m not saying that God used this storm as a judgment,” is what we in the language business call “a lie.” Franklin Graham is lying when he says he doesn’t think the hurricane was God’s judgement, and that lie is proven by his own statements and the basic articles of his religion. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/55 "2005-10-05T21:51:32Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > It’s _Catholic_; not Christian. Real Christians, like the Baptists, don’t do anything special for Lent. That is a whoosh, right? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/56 "2005-10-05T21:55:15Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > That is a whoosh, right? Never mind (emabarrassed smily thingy) ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/57 "2005-10-05T22:01:01Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Southern Baptists (like most Christians) believe that God is both omnipotent and omniscient. If you believe this, you logically MUST believe that nothing can happen without God’s will. According to Frankie Graham’s own doctrine (as cited above) God knew that hurricane was going to hit the gulf coast before he created the world. he created the atmosphere and the climates that led to it. He could have stopped it anytime he wanted and chose not to. No matter how you look at it, the hurricane was God’s will and could not have happened _without_ God’s will. The point of this OP and the subsequent pitting of Graham are not about what God cannot do. It was about the perceived intent of God, and if he sent the storm because NOLA is a place of sin. The OP quotes specifically states that Graham doesn’t believe that, and the direct quote from him says he isn’t saying that. You apparently want to pit the fact that he is a Southern Baptists and what you _think_ he believes, in spite of what he actually said, that God is somehow punishing New Orleans. > [@](#): > > Christian Fundamentalist R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, is considered by many to be a main spiritual leader of the Southern Baptists. He touched on theodicy during an address at the Seminary’s Alumni Memorial Chapel on 2001-SEP-13, two days after the tragedy in New York and Washington. 1 > > He assigned full responsibility for the New York City and Washington attacks on the (then) unknown terrorists. He said: “We dare not lack the moral courage to call these acts what they are-murderous acts of mass terror. We dare not dignify the murderers by explaining their cause. No cause, however righteous, can justify such acts. And, no righteous cause could produce such acts.” > Earlier in his talk, Dr. Mohler asked: “How could a good God allow this to happen? How can a God of love allow killers to kill, terrorists to terrorize, and the wicked to escape without a trace?” He acknowledges that God is omnipotent – infinitely powerful – and thus could have prevented the tragedy. He said: **“This much we know-we cannot speak of God’s decree in a way that would imply Him to be the author of evil, and we cannot fall back to speak of His mere permission, as if this allows a denial of His sovereignty and active will.”** He quoted Romans 8:28: “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, who are the called according to His purpose.” **He admits that humans cannot know the full truth: "We dare not speak on God’s behalf to explain why He allowed these particular acts of evil to happen at this time to these persons and in this manner.** Yet, at the same time, we dare not be silent when we should testify to the God of righteousness and love and justice who rules over all in omnipotence. Humility requires that we affirm all that the Bible teaches, and go no further. There is much we do not understand. As Charles Spurgeon explained, when we cannot trace God’s hand, we must simply trust His heart. A prominent Southern Baptist says that they “dare not” speak of God’s intent. ISTM that Grahams belief system tells him he can’t know God’s intent. Yet he had the audacity to do so, just like many who think they know the will of God. But unlike most the OP’s cite states he doesn’t believe God used the hurricane to pass judgment. Many idiots said they think God did. I find it refreshing he didn’t. Yet he gets pitted for it by knee-jerk asshats on this board. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/58 "2005-10-05T22:05:33Z")
[http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/1283.htm](http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/1283.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/59 "2005-10-05T22:10:14Z")
I just re-read the OP. What I got from it was this. Baby Graham is (sort of almost) saying that (in a nutshell) N.O got what they deserved. He just didn’t have the balls to come right out and say it. He talks all the way around it, and gets to judge plenty of people, without actually saying any damn thing worth hearing. I think he belongs here in the fucking Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816/60 "2005-10-05T22:28:27Z")
Your whole quote from Mohler supports everything I said about Southern Baptists, so I don’t know what you think it proves. It just further backs up what i said about SB beliefs that everything that happens, happens by God’s will. The quote you cited was related to 9/11 and and says that puny humans don’t have the right to say that God’s decisions are evil, but it does not deny that anything can happen without God’s will. In the case of Katrina, the theodical aspect really doesn’t enter into it. It’s not relevant whether God’s decision to allow the hurricane was “evil,” all that matters is that (according to the dictates of Graham’s self-professed doctrine) God allowed it. Let’s enumerate: 1. According to the stated doctrine of the SBC (Graham’s denomination) Everything that happens, happens only by the will of God. 2. Therefore hurricanes happen by the will of God. 3. Therefore, Graham believes that God allowed a hurricane to destroy New Orleans and will now “use” that devastation to create a new city free of all homos and voodoo charms. 4. Therefore, his claim that he’s not saying god sent the hurricane as punishment is completely disingenuous, and not really a denial anyway and is completely contradicted by every single other thing else that he said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-a-chip-off-the-old-blockhead/324816.md?page=4)