# Franklin Graham: The Muslim Brotherhood, with Obama's complicity, has infiltrated U.S. gov't **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737 "2011-03-23T17:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/61 "2011-03-29T12:48:24Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Maybe it is… > > [http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21267](http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21267) That is a completely different article from the ones you linked to. You need to get better at linking to articles. Anyway, I’m a bit surprised that you think that Qaradawi isn’t a radical. I thought you’d view people who were fans of Adolph Hitler as radicals. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStliOnVl6Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStliOnVl6Q) If you don’t think there’s anything radical about admiring Hitler and praising Hitler for what he did to the Jews, does that also mean that you don’t think Hitler was radical either? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/62 "2011-03-29T13:58:01Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That is a completely different article from the ones you linked to. You need to get better at linking to articles. > > Anyway, I’m a bit surprised that you think that Qaradawi isn’t a radical. > > I thought you’d view people who were fans of Adolph Hitler as radicals. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStliOnVl6Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStliOnVl6Q) > > If you don’t think there’s anything radical about admiring Hitler and praising Hitler for what he did to the Jews, does that also mean that you don’t think Hitler was radical either? Look, I certainly do not have time and-or capacity to fully understand the undercurrents in Egypt and the Arab world but I am positive that because of my own family and ethnic experience in Balkans and my realization of what views are held in Western world about it – I will think twice before I jump on any silly accusation made against people whose history in last 200 years is so severely screwed up. Also, as much as I believe that majority would like to live in a modern and free society I do also believe that due to historical context certain fractions may develop radical ideas and approaches and sometimes situation may arise in which these people will act on their threats. What I am also certain of is that empathy toward people of Egypt and acknowledgement of their suffering under dictatorial regimes of the recent past and owning up to playing a factor in that suffering by powerful Western nations would go much longer in mutual understanding and reconciliation that builds a basis for civil and moderate forces to come up on top. On contrary, having Dick Cheney opining on MB as a mortal threat in a major US newspaper is contrary to that and everyone involved might want to pause for second and think what kind of reaction would this bring. Before asking others to disown their radicals wouldn’t it be great if US disowns their own. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/63 "2011-03-29T15:29:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Perhaps it’s just me. Walk me though them, would you, please? > [@newcomer](#): > > Maybe it is… > > [http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21267](http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21267) Again, thank you. It strikes me as a somewhat _measured_ “denunciation” (if you insist on calling it one), but with that qualification I’ll concede that it is a statement of “distancing.” Now, do you suppose you could walk me through the ones you originally provided, as I requested? Here they are again: > [@newcomer](#): > > [Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood) > > [http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=22709](http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=22709) > > [http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=26424](http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=26424) ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/64 "2011-03-29T16:44:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Again, thank you. It strikes me as a somewhat _measured_ “denunciation” (if you insist on calling it one), but with that qualification I’ll concede that it is a statement of “distancing.” Now, do you suppose you could walk me through the ones you originally provided, as I requested? > > Here they are again: Yeah, I’d agree with your designation of it as “somewhat measured denunciation” (as opposed to full, unqualified and clear repudiation). However, two reasons – in my mind anyways – stand out as quite possible – one is purely from the POV of people of that time whose basic religious rights have been routinely squashed as a part of the Cold War scheming where there can only be a movement created within oppressed masses but not really a well defined political party that goes through self-cleansing process (I think we may be witnessing MB coming out as a formal political party) and Qutb, prior to his return from US, was relatively mild and within the spectrum of Islamic-based ideologues rising from the dictatorship of Nasser (there is a link to a very revealing article on Qutb and the promise in his early ideas and sad disappointment of his later change referred to as “turn” ). The other reason is that for an average American awareness of Qutb is through somewhat made-up narrative of Qutb -\> UBL -\> 9/11 and when you come with that narrative to a discussion in order for you to approach that discussion with some rational expectation you hope to find, as mentioned, full, unqualified and clear repudiation. I don’t think MB feels any need to do that as Qutb to 9/11 is purely fictional construct (UBL’s “admission” really cannot be accepted as argument due to elusive nature of confirming anything related to the guy). At this point I think I exhausted what I have to say on this subject. As noted, before complaining about other’s demons take care of your own first. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/65 "2011-03-29T16:51:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Again, thank you. It strikes me as a somewhat _measured_ “denunciation” (if you insist on calling it one), but with that qualification I’ll concede that it is a statement of “distancing.” I disagree, it’s an attempt at _rehabilitation._ [ > [@](#): > > A controversy was stirred up about the thoughts of Qutb among the Muslim Brotherhood, Salafi and jihadist movements, Qaradawi explained. This debate was attributed to his thoughts that formed a strong ground for jihadists quoting and taking advantage. Salafi movements also refer to his ideas; however, they did not recognize him as a Salafi belonging to them because he was always smoothly-shaven where Salafis wore beards… The Brotherhood also benefited from his ideas, emphasizing that they still read selected writings of Sayed Qutb and take what they see may be beneficial. Accordingly, his writings are very useful. > > Al-Qaradawi cautioned everyone who reads Qutb’s publication from falling into the trap of his thoughts particularly since he was a great influential writer and thinker. He wrote these books in moments of spiritual purity and sincerity with himself and had a talent for writing that attracts the reader which if allowed will strongly affect him. > > Qaradawi concluded that despite the fact that his testimony and disagreement with Qutb’s blasphemed ideas where his theory was not of the followers of the entire Muslim world, "this does not stop me from asserting that this man was a great and influential writer in terms of creativity and a good literary critic. Sayyed Qutb was a great preacher and thinker and a brilliant Muslim gaining this great grandeur not only of his ideas but also through his self-sacrifice. He sacrificed himself as redemption for his call and for the sake of the Almighty Allah. ]([http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21267](http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21267)) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/66 "2011-03-29T17:20:02Z")
Newcomer, what “silly accusation” did I make? Furthemore, congrats for admitting that you don’t think that praising Hitler and masturbating at the thought of slaughtering Jews constitutes extreme behavior or behavior that should be condemned. I’d forgotten that you’re a troofer who thinks the Jews(oops…the Israelis) were behind 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/67 "2011-03-29T17:34:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Newcomer, what “silly accusation” did I make? > > Furthemore, congrats for admitting that you don’t think that praising Hitler and masturbating at the thought of slaughtering Jews constitutes extreme behavior or behavior that should be condemned. I admitted??!??! Instead of asking for a cite, I nominate above for the Post of the Year in the very competitive Category “Putting-Foot-in-Mouth in One Post”. By God dude, do you read what you write? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/68 "2011-03-29T20:44:57Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I admitted??!??! > > Instead of asking for a cite, I nominate above for the Post of the Year in the very competitive Category “Putting-Foot-in-Mouth in One Post”. > > By God dude, do you read what you write? Yes, I accurately summarized your beliefs. You’ve freely admitted to being a truther who blames Israel for 9/11. Additionally you squealed that MB wasn’t radical. When I pointed out that MB’s spiritual leader(whom you’ve quoted approvingly) praised Hitler for slaughtering Jews and I asked you if you felt that praising Hitler for slaughtering Jews, you responded with a wall of text and freely said that no, you wouldn’t classify Qaradawi or the MB as such. I also forgot to congratulate you for admitting you were extremely ignorant about the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/69 "2011-03-30T11:22:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, I accurately summarized your beliefs. You’ve freely admitted to being a truther who blames Israel for 9/11. > > Additionally you squealed that MB wasn’t radical. When I pointed out that MB’s spiritual leader(whom you’ve quoted approvingly) praised Hitler for slaughtering Jews and I asked you if you felt that praising Hitler for slaughtering Jews, you responded with a wall of text and freely said that no, you wouldn’t classify Qaradawi or the MB as such. > > I also forgot to congratulate you for admitting you were extremely ignorant about the Middle East. You, dude, are pathetic excuse for an idiot. You should go back and read some more. And try to complexify it a bit. Your debating **Finn** esse is showing. **Again**. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/70 "2011-03-30T12:31:49Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > You, dude, are pathetic excuse for an idiot. You should go back and read some more. And try to complexify it a bit. > > Your debating **Finn** esse is showing. **Again**. Of course the easiest way to rebut my argument would have been to say, “I don’t think Israel had anything to do with 9/11 and think anyone who feels otherwise is either an idiot or an anti-Semite. Also, yes, I think people who praise Hitler for massacring Jews and proclaim their fondest desire is to kill Jews(as Al Qaradawi has said) are radicals.” The fact that you have chosen not to give such a response speaks volumes. Like I said, if you want to prove me wrong, it’s real simple. You just have to say that Israel wasn’t involved with 9/11 and people who cheer on Adolph Hitler are radicals. Why do you refuse to do so? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737/71 "2011-03-30T14:40:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Of course the easiest way to rebut my argument would have been to say, “I don’t think Israel had anything to do with 9/11 and think anyone who feels otherwise is either an idiot or an anti-Semite. Also, yes, I think people who praise Hitler for massacring Jews and proclaim their fondest desire is to kill Jews(as Al Qaradawi has said) are radicals.” > > The fact that you have chosen not to give such a response speaks volumes. > > Like I said, if you want to prove me wrong, it’s real simple. You just have to say that Israel wasn’t involved with 9/11 and people who cheer on Adolph Hitler are radicals. > > Why do you refuse to do so? Because I don’t live in Stalinist Russia or some 1984 off-shoot of a country where I have to toe the line with provocateurs, agents of State or self-absorbed Internet a-holes. If I had a dime for every time I’m asked to state my position for every made-up issue I wouldn’t be typing on these boards. So get off your high horse, let loose the horseshit you refer to as “moral ground” and stop annoying people. This is the place for debate and not for malicious insinuations and innuendos. If you had a shred of authenticity I actually might respond. You’re just hollow and irrelevant and engaging with you lowers my sense of self-worth. Enough already! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-graham-the-muslim-brotherhood-with-obamas-complicity-has-infiltrated-u-s-govt/575737.md?page=3)