# Franklin/Jefferson Ken Burns Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** documentary-bio\ **Created:** [June 25, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286 "2024-06-25T00:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/21 "2024-06-25T20:43:43Z")
The show implies Franklin did not take patents despite being encouraged to do so by friends, arguing science was a gift to humanity and useful inventions should not be restricted from widespread adoption. Not just bifocals, but also efficient hearths and lightning rods. Franklin was aggressive in expanding his print business in multiple cities, starting a fire department, offering insurance, establishing police services, founding the University of Pennsylvania and debating politics with the Junto of the Leather Apron Society. Although I believe the explanation, there is certainly no shortage of mythmaking when it comes to early American Presidents. The cynic in me wonders about how strong the patent system was at that time, though I applaud Franklin’s conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/22 "2024-06-26T01:40:29Z")
You may be interested in the recent [Behind the Bastards 4-part series on Thomas Jefferson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCqtUVwFs7I), which would give you some insight into some of your questions. They talk at length about Monticello. The series focuses mainly on Jefferson and his views and practices with regard to slavery, not his Presidency. DNA evidence suggests that at least one child of Sally Hemings shared paternal DNA with the Jefferson lineage. IIRC it had to be either be Jefferson himself or a male relative, but there were no other Jefferson men around Hemings at that time to make it plausibly anyone else. My impression is, it was a controversial idea for a long time until the DNA evidence came out and historians more or less now agree this is the most likely explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/23 "2024-06-26T02:23:27Z")
Don’t know about the Patent system in early America. I suspect it was akin to the Patent system in England. Maybe even connected to it. Yes, Franklin made lots of money with his inventions by notoriety. He was pretty famous in his time. He and Debra(who ran things when he was traveling in what seemed like forever) were very industrious. He never lacked for opportunities. (He’s was a multimillionaire at his death) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/24 "2024-06-26T11:27:01Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Does anyone play the armonium instrument today, a sort of set of wet rotating glass rims? Certainly. In fact, there’s been a revival of interest, and there are recordings. I haven’t hearc an armonium/glass harmonica in person, but I’ve heard someone playing the equivalent – a series of glasses attached to a tabletop – in New Orleans. You can read more than you ever wanted to know here: > **[Glass harmonica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_harmonica)** > > The glass harmonica, also known as the glass armonica, glass harmonium, bowl organ, hydrocrystalophone, or simply the armonica or harmonica (derived from ἁρμονία, harmonia, the Greek word for harmony), is a type of musical instrument that uses a series of glass bowls or goblets graduated in size to produce musical tones by means of friction (instruments of this type are known as friction idiophones). It was invented in 1761 by Benjamin Franklin. > The name "glass harmonica" (also "glass armonica",... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/25 "2024-06-26T11:28:36Z")
Interesting thing about Franklin – I’ve been spoiled by the image of him as a wit in the Peter Stone/Sherman Edwards musical **1776** , but apparently in real life Franklin sort of faded into the background and wasn’t perpetually popping off _bon mots_ in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/26 "2024-06-26T12:06:41Z")
I consider Ben Franklin not just one of the top five greatest Americans in history, but also one of the top twenty most influential figures worldwide. He was a true polymath, blessed with a sharp wit and a knack for making a mark in multiple domains. His resume reads like a historical VIP list: Founding Father of the United States, U.S. Ambassador to France, revolutionary scientist and inventor, pioneering journalist and publisher, public library system initiator, educational reformer, postal system overhaul architect, fervent abolitionist, urban improvement innovator, and founder of the American Philosophical Society. Franklin’s views on race notably progressed from typical 18th-century norms to a forward-thinking stance, ultimately advocating strongly for abolition. And let’s not forget his comedic stint in Paris, sharing an inn—and a bed!—with John Adams. I picture them as the historical “Odd Couple,” Franklin playing the laid-back Oscar to Adams’ uptight Felix, their banter must have been a show worth a front-row seat! He’s the historical character I’d most like to meet IRL. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/27 "2024-06-26T12:19:09Z")
Another interesting tidbit on Benjamin Franklin: A long time ago I happened upon his autobiography, and recall that he became a vegetarian in his teens due to his ethical concerns of eating animals. I found this fascinating, as I had no idea vegetarianism was a thing back then. But it didn’t last long for Ben: one day, while walking along a dock at the harbor, he caught a whiff of some fish being fried. It smelled so good he couldn’t help himself: he ate a few, it tasted good, and that was the end of his vegetarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/28 "2024-06-26T22:29:19Z")
1. None (outside of the football and other teams calling themselves The Quakers). 2. I believe Penn was the first university–in North America at least–to be founded without religion. I believe all the earlier ones were founded essentially as divinity schools. And Penn was founded long before UVA. Exactly when is another story. All over the campus you will find signs that say “Founded by Benjamin Franklin in 1740”. That is a lie. There was indeed some kind of school founded in 1740, but Franklin didn’t get involved until around 1750. So why the signs? They want to claim both the Franklin heritage and the fact that they are older than Princeton, founded in 1746. So they lie. But it was totally secular and much older than UVA. Edited to add: Believe it or not, in my original post that 21 is a 19 but the software changed it to a 21 and will not allow me to change it back. So my first point answers 20 and the second answers 19. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/29 "2024-06-27T01:53:26Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Franklin and Jefferson spoke 6 or 7 languages. Very fluent in French. Could I have a cite for this? I know Jefferson was fluent in French, but from what I read Franklin had just a basic understanding and his writing needed a translator to put it into proper French. > [@Tibby](#): > > And let’s not forget his comedic stint in Paris, sharing an inn—and a bed!—with John Adams. Let’s not also forget that at some point Franklin was given use of some [nobleman’s giant chateau](https://www.geriwalton.com/benjamin-franklin-in-passy-france/). That allowed all the adorers in Paris, even more than the number in England, to come to him, talk about lofty things, and share gossip and intelligence about the government’s affairs. That’s where he also wrote hundreds of letters about same, some of them in his “basic French,” a comment I remember but can’t remember where. Anyway, his French was better than Adams’ but only enough to get along in conversations. The night he shared a bed with Adams was in 1776, in New Brunswick, not in Paris. He lived in Passy from 1777 to 1785 and other Americans complained about the life of luxury Franklin led, although he worked very long days trying to get money, supplies, and support from France. For that alone - helping greatly to win the Revolution - he should be as great a figure as Washington. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/30 "2024-06-27T02:17:19Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > And let’s not forget his comedic stint in Paris, sharing an inn—and a bed!—with John Adams That wasn’t in Paris – it was in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Peter Stone actually wrote a scene about this in **1776** , but they cut it out. I’ve long suspected that the in they stayed at was the Indian Queen Tavern, which used to be in New Brunswick proper, but has since been moved to East Jersey Old Town > **[Indian Queen Tavern - Crossroads of the American Revolution](https://revolutionarynj.org/storyline_photo2/indian-queen-tavern/)** > > The Indian Queen Tavern was built in the early 1700s and stood on Albany Street in New Brunswick until 1971 when it was moved to East Jersey Olde Towne Village \[…\] > **[Interior Indian Queen Tavern – East Jersey Old Town – Piscataway, NJ -...](https://revolutionarynj.org/storyline_photo2/interior-indian-queen-tavern-east-jersey-old-town-piscataway-nj/)** > > The warm and comforting setting of the Indian Queen Tavern allowed travelers to recover from their long journeys; providing food, spirits, and a much needed place to lay one’s head. \[…\] ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/31 "2024-06-27T02:19:05Z")
Yes, I misremembered, Adams and Franklin did share the bed in NJ, not Paris. Somehow, that’s even funnier. And I agree, Franklin should be deemed at least as great as Washington—though George led a pretty remarkable life himself. Not only did he lead the Continental Army and become the first president, he enjoyed playing practical jokes, loved to dance, and perfected his own recipe for home-brew beer. A general, a president, a joker, a dancer, and a master brewer—now that’s a president to be proud of! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/32 "2024-06-27T02:40:36Z")
But would you drink a beer with Washington? (Of course you would!). ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/33 "2024-06-27T02:51:29Z")
Only if he chopped down the brew’s [hop plant](https://imgur.com/KL5t8T7), and didn’t lie about it. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/34 "2024-06-27T11:07:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > he should be as great a figure as Washington. Well, who is on the $100 bill, and who is on the quarter? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/35 "2024-06-27T17:57:42Z")
True. But how many $100 bills do you see compared to the number of quarters - and $1 bills? Washington is in your eyes and hands all the time and Franklin just hangs around with international drug dealers. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/36 "2024-06-27T18:01:11Z")
And when he was on the 50 cent piece he hung around slot machines in Vegas. So your point is that Franklin is one of the naughty boy, cool kids? 😉 How fitting. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/37 "2024-06-27T18:04:50Z")
Franklin definitely would have been one of the Rat Pack, no question. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/38 "2024-06-27T19:03:11Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > rue. But how many $100 bills do you see compared to the number of quarters - and $1 bills? Washington is in your eyes and hands all the time and Franklin just hangs around with international drug dealers. “My books are water; those of the great geniuses is wine. Everybody drinks water.” – Mark Twain ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286/39 "2024-06-27T20:05:15Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And when he was on the 50 cent piece I guess I learned something today. I mean, it’s no surprise that there were 50 cent pieces before JFK; I just had never, to the best of my memory, seen one or been aware of who or what was on them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/franklin-jefferson-ken-burns-questions/1003286.md?page=1)