Franklin the Turtle from Noggin is inappropriate for young children?

[Loach]

@Freudian_Slit

I don’t think it’s hardening them to introduce them to the idea that bad things happen. There are some kids who experience things like that firsthand. Telling them about it is hardly going to alter them greatly.

Life does a good enough job at doing that. I don’t need a cartoon on Noggin teaching them about death at 4. That’s what Disney is for when they are 6.

[Freudian_Slit]

But why do you think it will harden them? Don’t most kids already know what death is at age four? It hardly seems realistic to shield them from it. I think in general it’s not the kids who are going to be upset by it – it’s parents who are uncomfortable at the idea of their children not being “innocent.”

[Saltire]

In reference to the Arthur episode, one should realize that the show isn’t written for kids D.W.'s age, it’s for kids Arthur’s age: 7-10 years old. D.W. is the little sister, and the show is often about how to deal with the bad behavior of one’s younger sibling, and how to be a proper older sibling.

[jayjay]

@RickJay

If you want a few tears in your eyes, Youtube up the Sesame Street where they deal with the fact that will Lee, the actor who played Mr. Hooper, died. The adults tell Big Bird that Mr. Hooper died. He’s not just written out of the show; they don’t tell him Mr. Hooper went away, or that he was sold to a nice farm family or something; they tell him he died. “He’s dead,” says Maria. No euphemisms like “passed” are used; they say he died. When Big Bird asks when he’s coming back they explain he’s never coming back. They’re upset, and Big Bird gets upset, in much the same manner a child would.

It’s touching (in part because the cast starts crying for real over their friend - some can barely deliver their lines) but it’s phenomenal television. They have to deal with someone dying, in no small aprt due to the fact that Mr. Hooper was the most beloved of the live cast members and the issue couldn’t be ignored, and so they deal with it, but in a way that reassures Big Bird - and therefore the children watching - of the things they need to be reassured about; that they will be taken care of, that it wasn’t their fault, and so on. It’s really one of the most remarkably devised, written, and performed scenes in the history of television.

In a subtle but brilliant move, at the end of the episode, Big Bird is introduced to a neighbor and their new baby. Though it’s not actually said, the circle of life continues; “One day they’re not here and the next day they are!” Big Bird says of babies, stating the reverse of death. Life goes on, the story says; sometimes it sucks, but sometimes it’s pretty awesome, so draw courage from the good parts and you’ll get through the bad.

You can deal with this stuff with kids. Perhaps more to the point, you need to. My kid’s 6 and has asked me things about death and whatnot, and it’s a LOT easier to deal with it in a sensitive, intelligent manner than avoiding it. Do it right and you give the child the understanding they need to build the their character.

Tears in my eyes from being reminded of this. I was a teenager when Will Lee died, but I remember catching that scene while channel-surfing.

[kushiel]

@grude

Children’s programming has really grown up in recent years.

Adventure Time: More sexual innuendo than you can shake a dildo at, at times I have almost burst out laughing at what they slip in. The show is almost a deconstruction of kids shows, which sometimes gets downright brutal and depressing.

Star Wars Clone Wars: Blade Runner level moral ambiguity for your five year old, “those weren’t clones that died out there, those were men!”. The slavery episodes were probably some of the darkest shit to be seen on Cartoon Network.

Invader Zim: A villain protagonist, and a cynical misanthropic outlook tempered with a sense of humor make this gorgeous series far lighter in tone than it should be. “I love you cold, unfeeling robot arm!”.

Avatar The Last Airbender: Fantasy adventure series that has a brutal genocidal worldwide war as a focal point of the plot, often it feels that they are struggling to tell their story under the restrictions of being a “kids show”.

But those are meant for 10+, not really little kids. Actually, all 4 of those shows (except maybe Clone Wars) have big teen and adult circles of fans.

[maggenpye]

@Jophiel

When I worked for a PBS TV station, we had a promo with a black screen that would show the words “Death… War… Divorce… Poverty… Loss…” with a voiceover coming in saying “One man tackles all these issues as he has for years: Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.”

It’s true though. The man had a knack for taking big life issues and distilling them down in a way that a child could, if not 100% understand, at least not be scared shitless by.

We didn’t get Mr Rogers in New Zealand.

We only learned of him through parody and satire - ETA to clarify this is possibly the best way to learn about Mr Rogers.

And WhyNot no, not by a long shot.

[WhyNot]

@Freudian_Slit

And WhyNot no, not by a long shot.

That’s a relief. Sometimes I feel like the last person in history using storytelling the old fashioned way - as a way to communicate to my children valuable information about life, the universe and everything…or at least what my cultural and personal values have to say about it. Of *course *good storytelling makes you face uncomfortable truths. That’s what storytelling is for. It’s for teaching. *Franklin *is the Morality Play of today. Make the most of it.

[Freudian_Slit]

Actually, I didn’t say that particular sentence – maggenpye did. But I do agree with your sentiments, WhyNot!

[WhyNot]

@Freudian_Slit

Actually, I didn’t say that particular sentence – maggenpye did. But I do agree with your sentiments, WhyNot!

Oops, I’m so sorry. Not sure what happened to my quote tags there, Freudian Slit! Of course, I didn’t mean to misattribute, but I’m sorry about the error.

[Lamia]

@Loach

Life does a good enough job at doing that. I don’t need a cartoon on Noggin teaching them about death at 4. That’s what Disney is for when they are 6.

My father died when I was four years old. I think I would have been happier if my only exposure to death at that age had involved a fictional animal, but I didn’t have any say in the matter. I have never seen Franklin the Turtle and have no idea whether the episode in question is age-appropriate, but I think children who have been faced with a death in the family should be able to watch or read works written at their level that deal with this situation.

Perhaps these works should be hidden away from other, more fortunate children, lest they suffer the unspeakable tragedy of feeling sad for a little while about a cartoon show. But I do wonder what parents who feel this way think should be done about children who actually have experienced the death of a loved one. Should they be hidden away too?

[90one]

I remember watching that when I was 5 about 8 years ago. I adored that episode because I thought it was sweet he cared that much for her. I almost cry of the nostalgia I feel when I think of it. It isn’t inappropriate for children, I believe.

[Kamino_Neko]

I’m going to assume the no longer working YouTube clip from 2008 is Big Bird finding out that Mr Hooper had passed on?

[BigT]

@Lamia

My father died when I was four years old. I think I would have been happier if my only exposure to death at that age had involved a fictional animal, but I didn’t have any say in the matter. I have never seen Franklin the Turtle and have no idea whether the episode in question is age-appropriate, but I think children who have been faced with a death in the family should be able to watch or read works written at their level that deal with this situation.

Perhaps these works should be hidden away from other, more fortunate children, lest they suffer the unspeakable tragedy of feeling sad for a little while about a cartoon show. But I do wonder what parents who feel this way think should be done about children who actually have experienced the death of a loved one. Should they be hidden away too?

The entire point of fiction is to be an escape from the real world. This isn’t just true for kids–it’s true for adults, too. Even tragic works only work because you know that it didn’t really happen, that your life isn’t really affected.

So what this sort of stuff does is trivialize death. It’s a problem that will go away in 30 minutes. That’s fine for older people who know that it’s just the conventions of the medium. But for little kids? It’s teaching them the wrong lesson, entirely.

It’s not my entertainment’s job to teach my kids about the important life lessons. That’s my job as their parent. I decide when they are ready for this sort of thing. It’s not just a random episode of a children’s show.

And that’s really important here. Even to this day, people hate fiction that misleads them. A twist bad ending to something that should have a good ending pisses people off. If I want to see sad stuff, that’s my choice. It shouldn’t be foisted upon me or my children.

Because, again, fiction is an escape. It’s an escape from the random chaos that is the real world.

[jackdavinci]

@BigT

The entire point of fiction is to be an escape from the real world.

Fiction is more malleable than the real world but that doesn’t mean it’s an escape from the real world any more than using a wrench to fix an engine easier is an “escape” from fixing the engine. Like any other tool, it’s for whatever you choose to use it for. You can choose to use it to escape reality, but you can also choose to use it to get deeper in touch with it.

[InternetLegend]

@BigT

<snip>So what this sort of stuff does is trivialize death. It’s a problem that will go away in 30 minutes. That’s fine for older people who know that it’s just the conventions of the medium. But for little kids? It’s teaching them the wrong lesson, entirely.

It’s not my entertainment’s job to teach my kids about the important life lessons. That’s my job as their parent. I decide when they are ready for this sort of thing. It’s not just a random episode of a children’s show.</snip>

There’s a tailor-made solution for you and other parents who feel the same way. If you don’t want your child’s entertainment to teach him or her any lessons, you can choose different entertainment!

[kayT]

BigT, I’m sorry you think the whole point of fiction is to escape reality. You are missing a lot. One of the many points of fiction is to teach lessons about reality and dealing with it, actually.