# Frasier, Cheers and continuity **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2001, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111 "2001-09-27T14:47:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/21 "2016-01-28T16:13:56Z")
> [@Gravity](#): > > I remember it mentioned in one episode that Frasier’s mother was a scientist - she used to do sociology-type experiments on the boys. > [@Agrippina](#): > > Frasier’s mom named the two boys after her favorite lab rats she had. This sounds like Leonard’s mom on _The Big Bang Theory_. What if they were sisters? How about that continuity? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/22 "2016-01-28T16:43:04Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I thought the reason Martin couldn’t live on his own anymore was that he had taken a fall in the shower, not that he was newly a widower. The two are related, aren’t they? Falling in the shower wouldn’t be such a problem if his wife were still around. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/23 "2016-01-28T17:26:09Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > The two are related, aren’t they? Falling in the shower wouldn’t be such a problem if his wife were still around. Maybe, maybe not. I am a fan of the show, and I don’t recall there ever being reference to exactly when she died. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but I don’t remember it. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/24 "2016-01-28T18:01:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Maybe, maybe not. I am a fan of the show, and I don’t recall there ever being reference to exactly when she died. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but I don’t remember it. Maybe it’s a question of what counts as “newly” widowed. It must have happened some time after Frasier moved to Boston, because Niles once complained to Frasier about having had to look after Martin all by himself ever since their mother died. But circumstances suggest it wasn’t too long before Frasier returned to Seattle—for example, after some brief hesitation about rushing into a relationship after his wife’s death, Martin starts dating women in the first few episodes of the first season. If he’d been a widower of ten years already it’s less likely he’d have been hemming and hawing about it being too soon. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/25 "2016-01-29T01:39:04Z")
An epilogue to a _Cheers_ episode suggests Frasier and Lilith will reconcile in some sense and possibly there will be a break between Frasier and Niles, or that Niles will die before Frasier. She (and an adult Frederick) are the only ones present for the reading of Frasier’s will “many years” in the future. One fairly blatant inconsistency I recall, though, involves Frasier’s mother. There was an episode of _Frasier_ in which (as I possibly misremember) Frasier and Niles made some critical comments about a woman Martin was dating. Martin blasted them for it and they essentially called him a hypocrite, recalling times when Martin had made similar disparaging remarks about Lilith and Maris, among other women that Frasier or Niles had been involved with. I think it was stated or implied that Hester Crane had been classy enough to restrain herself, but the only actual appearance of the character (that wasn’t a flashback, dream or home movie) was the Nancy Marchand guest appearance on _Cheers_, where Hester was quite thoroughly and instantly and indeed menacingly hostile to Diane Chambers. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/26 "2016-01-29T01:48:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hester was quite thoroughly and instantly and indeed menacingly hostile to Diane Chambers. Maybe she was already terminally ill and/or starting to suffer from dementia. My dad’s personality changed completely when he was dying from bone cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/27 "2016-01-29T02:29:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This sounds like Leonard’s mom on _The Big Bang Theory_. What if they were sisters? How about that continuity? I don’t know about that, but I think Frasier and Niles have a [third brother](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow_%28DC_Comics%29)they never talk about or acknowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/28 "2016-01-29T02:36:04Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Maybe she was already terminally ill and/or starting to suffer from dementia. My dad’s personality changed completely when he was dying from bone cancer. Good point - from Frasier’s reaction (as I recall), he didn’t seem to think Diane’s descriptions of Hester’s threats were plausible, at least at first. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/29 "2016-01-29T02:41:16Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Also, Frasier still skied on his own show. As far as drinking beer, you can retcon that as Frasier’s attempt to be more like Sam’s crowd in order to appeal to Diane. That was the only reason he hung out at Cheers in the first place. Frasier likes to think of himself as someone who prefers the finer things, but who can fit in with any crowd; this shows up when he’s at Cheers, when he starts hanging out at the British-style pub he finds in Seattle, and other occasions. Niles, by contrast, doesn’t feel the same need to diversify his interests. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/30 "2016-01-29T04:31:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This sounds like Leonard’s mom on _The Big Bang Theory_. What if they were sisters? How about that continuity? Leonard’s mom is more like Lilith (more interested in lab experiments than empathy); maybe they are sisters instead. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/31 "2016-01-29T08:15:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Maybe, maybe not. I am a fan of the show, and I don’t recall there ever being reference to exactly when she died. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but I don’t remember it. According to IMDB, the episode of _ **Cheers!** _ with Hester aired on 22 November 1984. The first episode of _ **Frasier** _ aired on 16 September 1993. So she died sometime in that almost nine-year window. Marty had apparently been living on his own for some time, so we can assume she died sometime around the first Gulf War. This would be about six years after threatening to kill Diane. Sounds right for someone afflicted with dementia? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/32 "2016-01-29T08:43:34Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I came in here to post something that I had already posted nearly 12 years ago. Whoa, that _freaked me out_. :eek: But nothing ever changes! Do you have any idea what it’s like to play the same [del]character[/del] poster for twenty years? ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/33 "2016-01-29T22:39:08Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > But nothing ever changes! Do you have any idea what it’s like to play the same [del]character[/del] poster for twenty years? LOL, I just watched that episode last night. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/34 "2016-01-30T04:28:02Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I don’t know about that, but I think Frasier and Niles have a [third brother](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow_%28DC_Comics%29)they never talk about or acknowledge. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/35 "2016-01-30T06:23:10Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I don’t get it. From the Wiki article: The Scarecrow (Dr. **Jonathan Crane** ) is a fictional supervillain appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics, commonly as an adversary of the superhero Batman. The character first appeared in World’s Finest Comics #3 (September 1941) and was created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger. A **professor of psychology and psychiatry** , Dr. Crane uses a variety of fear-enhancing drugs, toxins, and psychological warfare tactics to exploit the fears and phobias of his adversaries. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/36 "2016-01-30T17:56:59Z")
Ah, thanks. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/37 "2016-01-31T13:11:44Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I don’t know about that, but I think Frasier and Niles have a [third brother](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow_%28DC_Comics%29)they never talk about or acknowledge. **Three** brothers? And Martin’s a widowed father with **three** boys? So _Frazier_ was going to be an updated _My Three Sons_ until Jonathan “_Chuck_” Crane disappeared upstairs in Happier Days? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/38 "2016-02-06T10:29:35Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > According to IMDB, the episode of _ **Cheers!** _ with Hester aired on 22 November 1984. The first episode of _ **Frasier** _ aired on 16 September 1993. So she died sometime in that almost nine-year window. I just watched [“Room Full of Heroes”](http://www.kacl780.net/frasier/transcripts/season_9/episode_6/room_full_of_heroes.html), an episode from the ninth season which aired in October 2001. In it, Niles mentions that Hester has been gone for fourteen years, which would put her death around 1987. So Martin had presumably been living on his own for about six years. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111/39 "2016-02-06T11:15:47Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I just watched [“Room Full of Heroes”](http://www.kacl780.net/frasier/transcripts/season_9/episode_6/room_full_of_heroes.html), an episode from the ninth season which aired in October 2001. In it, Niles mentions that Hester has been gone for fourteen years, which would put her death around 1987. So Martin had presumably been living on his own for about six years. … And there we go! 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-cheers-and-continuity/84111.md?page=1)