# Frasier is getting good again! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263 "2003-12-11T03:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ultraviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@Ultraviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ultraviolet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/1 "2003-12-11T03:51:13Z")
I used to greatly enjoy watching Fraser, but I found that over the last few seasons, it greatly dropped in quality. It got self-indulgent, sentimental, and most importantly, _it was not funny_. However, this season, I have found some episodes to be a return to the wit and humour of earlier shows. I especially enjoyed last night’s episode where Frasier’s son comes to visit, and is going through a “goth phase”. The funniest part of the episode was undoubtedly Niles trying to rebel by getting high on a pot brownie that Martin had already eaten and replaced with a regular brownie. Both characters were absolutely hilarious, Martin being high as a kite and not realizing it, and Niles stone sober, but thinking he’s high. I’m looking forward to watching the next episodes, and I haven’t felt like that in quite a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Sam\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_H)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/2 "2003-12-11T04:43:41Z")
I liked the recent episode where Freddy was bar mitvahed and Frazier accidently gave a speech in Klingon. The main problem with Frazier right now is the main character’s love life. They should find a partner for him and be done with it. The idiot plots centered around his love life are predictable and irritating. ---
**Author:** ![E.T.Bass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@E.T.Bass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E.T.Bass)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/3 "2003-12-11T06:37:08Z")
I don’t watch Frasier, except that I like his gay little brother (whose character is not gay), but… Why not bring back Bebe Neuwirth who played Lillith? They were magic in Cheers, why not now? I read that Frasier is the longest TV charachter in TV history, that Grammar has played him for 18 years. A question, whatever happened to Frasier and Lillith’s kid? In TV Land he would be almost college aged, is he mentioned or is he written out? If he was written out, wouldn’t Frasier be a millionaire deadbeat dad? ET ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/4 "2003-12-11T06:42:07Z")
Frasier and Lilith’s kid was in the 12-9-03 episode. He’s usually shows up once or twice per season. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/5 "2003-12-11T06:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E.T. Bass \* > **I read that Frasier is the longest TV charachter in TV history, that Grammar has played him for 18 years.** 2nd longest, I believe. Someone on Bonanza holds the record, IIRC. > [@](#): > > \*\*A question, whatever happened to Frasier and Lillith’s kid? In TV Land he would be almost college aged, is he mentioned or is he written out? If he was written out, wouldn’t Frasier be a millionaire deadbeat dad? > > ET \*\* If you read the OP, you may notice that it specifically mentions that Frederick was in a recent episode. ---
**Author:** ![E.T.Bass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@E.T.Bass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E.T.Bass)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/6 "2003-12-11T08:23:09Z")
I apologize, like I said i don’t watch the show, I watched Cheers. ET ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/7 "2003-12-11T09:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > **2nd longest, I believe. Someone on Bonanza holds the record, IIRC.** “Gunsmoke” actually. Although I don’t think he’ll have that for very long. The Simpsons have been running for 17 years in April and have had their own sitcom for 14 years this month. When does their current contract run out? Unless “Frasier” decides to continue. There was a BBC story not too long ago hinting that they might return for yet another year. Anyway I’m glad it’s getting good again. It’s decrease in quality was part of what weened me off broadcast TV. Well I wont watch it there but here’s to reruns on cable. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/8 "2003-12-11T12:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by E.T. Bass \* > [BA question, whatever happened to Frasier and Lillith’s kid? In TV Land he would be almost college aged, is he mentioned or is he written out? If he was written out, wouldn’t Frasier be a millionaire deadbeat dad?_\* Oddly enough, the writers have let the character of Frederick Crane age in real-time. I forgot what year he was born on _Cheers_, though. 1990? He’s about twelve or thirteen now. The funniest part was when Martin thought Eddie was really a talking dog after seeing him on the Seattle commercial. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/9 "2003-12-11T15:02:35Z")
I was just talking about Frederick’s startlingly normal aging process with a friend of mine. I think it’s because he’s not a series regular. This means that the writers aren’t as tempted to say, “Look, we’re tired of waiting around for this kid to start talking – we need him to start producing wisecracks NOW! Let’s make him six instead of two.” ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/10 "2003-12-11T15:04:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam H. \* > **I liked the recent episode where Freddy was bar mitvahed and Frazier accidently gave a speech in Klingon.** Apology for side track in advance . . . This episode was ruined for me because of NBC’s damned teasers and their policy of showing a show’s payoff. All through the show, I kept thinking “He’s going to speak Klingon, he’s going to speak Kilingon . . .” ---
**Author:** ![NoGoodNamesLeft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoGoodNamesLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoGoodNamesLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/11 "2003-12-11T17:12:59Z")
The kid who plays Frederick… is that the kid in “2 and a half men” as well? Also, this begs the question if any show has ever jumped the shark and landed on their feet. Can a show come back once turning that ‘corner’? I can’t think of any others. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/12 "2003-12-11T18:06:37Z")
I’ve been enjoying _Frasier_ a lot more this season, too. Especially the episode with Patrick Stewart as the gay opera director who had a romantic interest in Frasier. P.S. Just to clarify, James Arness played Marshall Dillon on _Gunsmoke_ for 20 seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/13 "2003-12-11T19:38:22Z")
I, for one, never thought that Frasier “Jumped the Shark”. Perhaps the last few seasons haven’t been stellar, but they’ve been far from poor and were most certainly no worse off than most of the drivel on television. ---
**Author:** ![NoGoodNamesLeft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoGoodNamesLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoGoodNamesLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/14 "2003-12-11T20:24:26Z")
Nah, they jumped the minute Daphne & Niles got together. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/15 "2003-12-11T20:42:49Z")
I loved the episode with Derek Jacobi as the sci-fi actor who once played in a one-man Shakespeare play in front of Frasier and Niles when the two were in elementary school. Frasier sees him at a convention and he and Niles decide to have him act again in _Hamlet_, only he turns out to be the worst actor they’ve ever seen. I think they jumped the shark when Niles had his heart problems. Even Kelsey Grammer thought that that wasn’t the best route to go with the show (and no, I don’t have a cite—it was in the paper, under one of those Celebrity Blurbs a while ago). ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/16 "2003-12-11T21:51:49Z")
Well, I’ll agree that the heart problems were a lame addition, but it hardly ruined the show. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/17 "2003-12-11T21:54:10Z")
Furthermore, that spanned no more than a few episodes; every show has moments where the quality isn’t up to par with the standard that’s been set. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/18 "2003-12-11T22:21:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E.T. Bass \* > I don’t watch Frasier, except that I like his gay little brother (whose character is not gay), but… Would you care to explain that? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/19 "2003-12-12T01:27:00Z")
Niles Crane the character is not gay. David Hyde Pierce the actor is gay. Martin Crane the character is not gay. John Mahoney the actor is gay. Bulldog Briscoe the character is not gay. Dan Butler the actor is gay. (I am pretty sure I’m right on all these, I read it in an article someplace, but if not, I apologise to any and all of the actors I am wrong about) ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263/20 "2003-12-12T06:52:35Z")
If you read that in an article someplace, it was a lot of smoke and supposition. David Hyde Pierce has long been rumored as gay (in the same vein as Kevin Spacey) but has never publicly acknowledged any such thing. Rumors about John Mahoney have only cropped up recently, their provenance is questionable – and that’s being charitable. (I’d say more like flat out bull.) Dan Butler is gay, out and proud and has gone on record that to his knowledge he is the only gay actor in the cast of Frasier. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frasier-is-getting-good-again/218263.md?page=2)