# Fraternal grandmother, or Paternal grandmother? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358 "2013-12-03T08:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/1 "2013-12-03T08:54:48Z")
How can there be such a concept as a “fraternal” grandparent? I’ve always said “ **P** aternal”. The subject came up when I hijacked [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=709350)— in which somebody referred to his “fraternal grandmother”, and I said “Huh?”. Then another poster simply answered matter-of-factly: “Fraternal grandparents are your father’s parents. Maternal grandparents are your mom’s parents.” No thank you. I’m still gonna say “Paternal”. Now, you don’t have to be a Latin scholar to know that : 1. Frater means brother 2. Pater means father After all, in everyday language, we don’t say that college students join “paternity houses”. And similarly, unmarried pregnant women don’t go to court and demand “fraternity” tests. Some quick googling shows that there is some confusion about the phrase “fraternal grandparent”, but that it is used in genealogy sites. (Who ought to know better, if you ask me.) I still say “huh?” … Why did I study Latin if everybody is going to abuse it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/2 "2013-12-03T09:18:47Z")
Lots of people will also tell you very pacifically how your opposed to axe a question, too. Doesn’t mean they’re right. The only uses of it I can find are by users in Q&A or message boards on genealogy websites, so I think the likeliest answer is they’re simply mistaken. I don’t find any dictionaries, encyclopedias, or even genealogy authorities using the word in that manner. It’s _Paternal_, and I’ll go down swinging on that one. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/3 "2013-12-03T09:22:08Z")
Yeah, it’s paternal. Fraternal would be used for non-identical twins. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/4 "2013-12-03T10:02:54Z")
For all intensive purposes, there is no such thing as a fraternal grandparent. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/5 "2013-12-03T10:26:01Z")
Could they be Uncle Phi or Aunty Beta’s parents? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/6 "2013-12-03T10:28:43Z")
From the other thread: never heard of fraternal grandparents. And it wasn’t quite like that there, but the responding poster was the same as the original. > [@friedo](#): > > For all intensive purposes, there is no such thing as a fraternal grandparent. It’s a mute point, because irregardless of the meaning, your grandparents are literally your twin brothers. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/7 "2013-12-03T11:46:14Z")
The only meaning of “Fraternal” which fits is “lecherous” if you allow “fraternizing” to be reduced back to the adjective. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/8 "2013-12-03T11:52:21Z")
As **thelurkinghorror** said, the only poster who supported that use of fraternal in the other thread was **aceplace57**. I don’t think there’s any ambiguity here; fraternal is wrong. Paternal is the word **aceplace57** wanted. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/9 "2013-12-03T12:02:42Z")
A fraternal grandparent would be a grandparent who was also your brother. Perhaps time traveling, or crazy marriages (if you count in-law grandparents) could satisfy this condition. If your father when back in time and got his grandmother (one of your great grandmothers) pregnant, and if that child then grows up to one day to father your grandfather (your dad’s dad or heck even your mom’s dad), then you’d have a fraternal grandparent, as your grandpa would also be your brother (half brother, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/10 "2013-12-03T12:11:24Z")
Thanks, **drew** , I’m sure that’s exactly what **ace** meant. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/11 "2013-12-03T12:57:18Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > A fraternal grandparent would be a grandparent who was also your brother. Perhaps time traveling, or crazy marriages (if you count in-law grandparents) could satisfy this condition. > > If your father when back in time and got his grandmother (one of your great grandmothers) pregnant, and if that child then grows up to one day to father your grandfather (your dad’s dad or heck even your mom’s dad), then you’d have a fraternal grandparent, as your grandpa would also be your brother (half brother, anyway). I almost follow that, but I do/will/had (loop dependant) only barely pass Temporal Sociology at the Academy. I will have done much better on the Applied Chronometrics exams. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/12 "2013-12-03T13:08:14Z")
What if you had a half sibling from the same mother who married your father’s widowed parent? Fraternal-paternal grandparent, no time travel required. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/13 "2013-12-03T13:08:59Z")
I think you could crowbar a usage of the term in the case of half-siblings somehow, where different parents would be involved. But that doesn’t sound like the way it was used, and I’ve never heard it used the way I’ve described. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/14 "2013-12-03T13:47:15Z")
It’s a term mostly used in the Appalachians, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/15 "2013-12-03T14:29:54Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I almost follow that There’s a famous country song which is also a little hard to follow: > [@](#): > > Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three > I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be > This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red > My father fell in love with her and soon they too were wed > > This made my dad my son-in-law and really changed my life > For now my daughter was my mother, 'cause she was my father’s wife > And to complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy > I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy . There are a couple more verses, which are funny–but I can’t post 'em here without getting arrested by the copywrite police, or else spanked by the mods . . .and–the final climactic final lines are > [@](#): > > 'Cause now I have become the strangest 'case you ever saw > As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa The complete lyrics are at: [http://www.metrolyrics.com/im-my-own-grandpa-lyrics-ray-stevens.html](http://www.metrolyrics.com/im-my-own-grandpa-lyrics-ray-stevens.html) ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/16 "2013-12-03T14:42:17Z")
I wonder if this was coined by people who are etymologically impaired, and figured that since maternal shares an initial letter with mother, the equivalent term for father has to start with an F. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/17 "2013-12-03T15:39:56Z")
I’d always heard fraternal grandparents were your dad’s parents. A quick google search shows many pages of people listing fraternal grandparents in ancestry pages. I guess what I hear in everyday conversation might not be correct. If it’s paternal then I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/18 "2013-12-03T16:16:57Z")
I don’t think people should be too hard on you. It does make a small amount of sense, in that fraternal has something to do with male, and words mean what we hear people around us using them to mean. You’re certainly not the only one who’s ever made that error. But now you know. As the cliché goes, you’ve learned something today; must be a good day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/19 "2013-12-03T16:28:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’d always heard fraternal grandparents were your dad’s parents. A quick google search shows many pages of people listing fraternal grandparents in ancestry pages. I guess what I hear in everyday conversation might not be correct. > > If it’s paternal then I stand corrected. Try googling “paternity suit” and “fraternity suit”. That will quickly clear up your confusion. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358/20 "2013-12-03T16:36:21Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > And similarly, unmarried pregnant women don’t go to court and demand “fraternity” tests. They might, if it was the whole fraternity that they need tested.😃 ::d&r:: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternal-grandmother-or-paternal-grandmother/675358.md?page=2)