# Fraternities, defend yourselves! Against bad public image. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 13, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482 "2015-11-13T17:48:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/61 "2015-11-16T21:25:32Z")
So how do you guys feel about country clubs? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/62 "2015-11-16T22:06:41Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > The key to this issue is in changing the last phrase in Paragraph One to the active voice and identifying those who consider the movie a comedy classic. > The only proper criterion for gauging a movie’s popularity is the box-office record, devoid as it is of personal opinion. I have never used that as a basis for my choices, however, having scarcely any interest in movies in the first place, let alone interpreting boorish and vulgar behavior as comedy. I sense that these days the studios hire PR firms to attract potential audiences; my sales resistance is just too high. So label me as a recluse if you choose, but I will not pick a movie that obviously won’t appeal to me. Calm down Squidward. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/63 "2015-11-16T22:43:28Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > So label me as a recluse if you choose, but I will not pick a movie that obviously won’t appeal to me. Reclusive, sober, and stupid about _Animal House_ is no way to go through life. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/64 "2015-11-16T22:47:29Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Reclusive, sober, and stupid about _Animal House_ is no way to go through life. Come out here and call me that to my face. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/65 "2015-11-17T00:23:20Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Reclusive, sober, and stupid about _Animal House_ is no way to go through life. Personal insults aren’t allowed here, as you well know. Don’t do this again. > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Come out here and call me that to my face. And you’ve been warned previously for threatening people, so let’s not go down that path. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/66 "2015-11-17T00:33:08Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Personal insults aren’t allowed here, as you well know. Don’t do this again. Oops, I was riffing off the famous _Animal House_ line, and didn’t stop to think that it would come across as an insult. My apologies to **dougie\_monty**. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/67 "2015-11-17T01:14:09Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Personal insults aren’t allowed here, as you well know. Don’t do this again. > > And you’ve been warned previously for threatening people, so let’s not go down that path. You obviously understand how I feel. I don’t think anyone wants to be called “stupid” in a public forum. I hereby back off, as long as TroutMan gets the message. Part of my point was that I don’t want someone else’s tastes imposed on me, no matter how popular they are. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/68 "2015-11-17T02:48:32Z")
For the record, the line from the movie was: “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.” And… the movie’s not reall a gross-out comedy\* or particularly stupid. It’s actually quite clever and well acted, and a sort of a window into early-mid 1960s male college life from what I gather, even if the viewer wasn’t in a fraternity. Hell, my father was in a military college a couple years after the time the movie was set, and thinks the movie is far more hilarious than anyone really ought to, and I think it’s because it has some special relevance to men who attended college from about 1960-1965 or so. (\*it’s not a gross-out comedy in the same way that Van Halen wasn’t a hair metal band. It set the stage and to some degree defined the genre, but at its core, the comedy in the movie didn’t revolve around grossness or bodily functions the way later movies comedy did.) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/69 "2015-11-17T02:51:30Z")
Of course fraternities have a negative public image. It’s a self-selecting group of college age guys declaring themselves to be superior to everyone while spending all their free time getting drunk, stoned and laid as much as possible. Don’t get me wrong. Being in a fraternity is a lot of fun. You’re living with 30 of your buddies. And it’s even better if your school has a strong Greek system (my college had something like 35 fraternities). And we did all that Animal House / Van Wilder shit. The downside is that it does create an elitist culture of drunken a-hole entitlement. It can also be a somewhat insular culture. You tend to mostly hang out with other fraternity people doing fraternity people stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/70 "2015-11-17T03:05:34Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The downside is that it does create an elitist culture of drunken a-hole entitlement. It can also be a somewhat insular culture. You tend to mostly hang out with other fraternity people doing fraternity people stuff. Is that really such a bad thing? The older I get, the more I’m starting to think that insularity has its benefits - especially if that group you are insular with has a disproportionate amount of money and power. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/71 "2015-11-17T04:41:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > For the record, the line from the movie was: > > “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.” > > And… the movie’s not reall a gross-out comedy\* or particularly stupid. It’s actually quite clever and well acted, and a sort of a window into early-mid 1960s male college life from what I gather, even if the viewer wasn’t in a fraternity. Hell, my father was in a military college a couple years after the time the movie was set, and thinks the movie is far more hilarious than anyone really ought to, and I think it’s because it has some special relevance to men who attended college from about 1960-1965 or so. > > (\*it’s not a gross-out comedy in the same way that Van Halen wasn’t a hair metal band. It set the stage and to some degree defined the genre, but at its core, the comedy in the movie didn’t revolve around grossness or bodily functions the way later movies comedy did.) You know, Bump, I wish I had seen a comment like this one sooner. In fact, many times I have rejected movies \*indiscriminately–\*regardless of their content. This is because I just didn’t want to see movies at all; when I was a kid my parents sent me to the movies–I had no choice. I usually found a way out anyway, by sitting in the lobby or leaving the movie house altogether and looking at displays in the windows of a jewelry store and an auto-parts store nearby, which held my interest better. The movies at that time that I did watch were pretty good though–\*The Great Locomotive Chase, The Magnificent Seven, Journey to the Center of the Earth, The Time Machine. \* But we moved out of the area and no longer lived near a movie house and I stopped going. After that I had no money and no transportation–and no interest in the movies being made at the time. I just don’t consider it a loss that I haven’t seen movies such as \*Animal House–\*and I know it was something of a box-office champ. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/72 "2015-11-17T04:42:38Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Is that really such a bad thing? > > The older I get, the more I’m starting to think that insularity has its benefits - especially if that group you are insular with has a disproportionate amount of money and power. I guess it depends if you consider only yourself versus the society/community you are a part of. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/73 "2015-11-17T06:42:13Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I guess it depends if you consider only yourself versus the society/community you are a part of. If I _had_ gone to a four-year college, I would have avoided social organizations of any kind, my emotional isolation being what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/74 "2015-11-17T07:05:44Z")
In my opinion: Advantages: 1. Often cheaper than dorm housing. Also why buy a textbook when your house has a copy? 2. They usually have test banks and files on different teachers and assignments which can make schoolwork much easier. Why waste time studying for something that wont even be on the exam? 3. Networking: When they graduate they can open up their alumni books and start making phone calls. No, it doesnt mean an automatic job but it helps. One young man who worked for me said every member of his frat was in some sort of business related field. My wifes sorority has alumni chapters in nearly all major cities. 4. A large network of friends right in college which you can accomplish alot with. For example in many colleges its the greeks who make all the homecoming parade floats. 5. Back to friends. College can be a scary and lonely experience. What classes should one take? How should one study? BTW most frats I knew REQUIRED and made sure their members spent a certain amount of time studying. Disadvantages: 1. The university has more control over you than if say you lived in an apartment. 2. Frats get their members to do many bad things including committing crimes. One frat I knew required them to disrupt a class. Another was involved in a rape. Another a major theft. 3. Frats can thus control their members even after they leave college. They can be like the mafia and extort favors even. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/75 "2015-11-17T07:33:27Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > That the privileged gather in closed groups to enjoy and perpetuate their privilege is one of those statements so obvious it tells us little, except that the person making it may consider “privilege” to be an evil per se. But really if it were just the privileged getting together for drinks and smokes and future mutual job references it would be unremarkable. Privilege itself is not an evil. What IS an evil is when the privileged quite literally conspire and unite to perpetuate their own privilege, while not sharing much of any of that privilege with those less fortunate. This includes said “get togethers”. Until I see a ‘frat bro’ that spends as much time and shares as much friendship with widows/widowers/outcasts/et-cetera as they do with their elite buddies, I will feel safe in saying that all fraternity people are guilty of the aforementioned. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/76 "2015-11-17T09:05:16Z")
> [@DoggyDunnit](#): > > Privilege itself is not an evil. What IS an evil is when the privileged quite literally conspire and unite to perpetuate their own privilege, while not sharing much of any of that privilege with those less fortunate. This includes said “get togethers”. Privilege sharing doesn’t work that way. In our competitive world, there are a finite number of relatively favorable positions. It’s not that globally there isn’t enough metal or oil or nuclear fuel in the ground for us all to live like kings, but the social structure is set up such that some people get almost all the benefits from economic activities and others don’t. So if for every 100 people, 10 people get 30% of the economic benefits, 1 person gets 60%, and the other 90 people get 10%, see the problem? There are only so many slots to be among the smaller, more advantageous group to go around. And if you want to occupy such a slot, your best bet is to do favors for a powerful, insular group that already has such resources, and to put all your energy into giving that group what they demand. A “widow” or someone else from the “loser” group is a waste of your time. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/77 "2015-11-17T09:53:37Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Privilege sharing doesn’t work that way. In our competitive world, there are a finite number of relatively favorable positions. It’s not that globally there isn’t enough metal or oil or nuclear fuel in the ground for us all to live like kings, but the social structure is set up such that some people get almost all the benefits from economic activities and others don’t. > > So if for every 100 people, 10 people get 30% of the economic benefits, 1 person gets 60%, and the other 90 people get 10%, see the problem? There are only so many slots to be among the smaller, more advantageous group to go around. And if you want to occupy such a slot, your best bet is to do favors for a powerful, insular group that already has such resources, and to put all your energy into giving that group what they demand. A “widow” or someone else from the “loser” group is a waste of your time. Paul Ryan, is that you?! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/78 "2015-11-17T10:38:34Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Privilege sharing doesn’t work that way. In our competitive world, there are a finite number of relatively favorable positions. It’s not that globally there isn’t enough metal or oil or nuclear fuel in the ground for us all to live like kings, but the social structure is set up such that some people get almost all the benefits from economic activities and others don’t. > > So if for every 100 people, 10 people get 30% of the economic benefits, 1 person gets 60%, and the other 90 people get 10%, see the problem? There are only so many slots to be among the smaller, more advantageous group to go around. And if you want to occupy such a slot, your best bet is to do favors for a powerful, insular group that already has such resources, and to put all your energy into giving that group what they demand. A “widow” or someone else from the “loser” group is a waste of your time. Tornadic thunderstorm passed (yay, North Texastan!) and all jest aside… unfortunately, that’s precisely the attitude these frat boys and sorority girls have. What they fail to realize, however, is that it’s very much possible to share prosperity with the less fortunate without hurting oneself. Sure, there’s sacrifices, but when you’re as privileged as FB/SG are, you have plenty of wiggle room for sacrificing some time, money, et cetera for the benefit of those who haven’t been as lucky as you. ‘Privilege’ in the context I’m using it means having a life with a circle and network of friends, income that feeds/shelters/waters/connects/et cetera, with some resources for leisure activities. I’m not talking gold-plated toilet seats, I’m talking catfish on the plate and buddies around the table. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/79 "2015-11-17T13:26:48Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You obviously understand how I feel. I don’t think anyone wants to be called “stupid” in a public forum. I hereby back off, **as long as TroutMan gets the message.** [Emphasis added.] Let me be very clear, here. If you have a problem with what someone else posts, you can report it. Someone else making a post that offends you does not give you license to threaten them, under any circumstance. As noted above, you’ve already previously been noted AND warned for it, so you have no excuse for posting anything that sounds like a threat. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482/80 "2015-11-17T14:39:36Z")
> [@DoggyDunnit](#): > > Until I see a ‘frat bro’ that spends as much time and shares as much friendship with widows/widowers/outcasts/et-cetera as they do with their elite buddies, I will feel safe in saying that all fraternity people are guilty of the aforementioned. Okay, now you’re being ridiculous. Do you expect _all_ college students to hang out with widows and widowers? Or are “frat bros” just special? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraternities-defend-yourselves-against-bad-public-image/737482.md?page=5)