# Fraudster Collection Agency has just called my fiance. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088 "2004-12-16T04:07:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/41 "2004-12-17T14:13:25Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > **Shodan** , these people call again and again, so just ignoring it doesn’t work. My wife got calls on a $30 charge from 8 years ago that the original credit card company agreed to remove. When the debt gets sold, the new people know nothing about agreements. I looked up some of the links given here, discovered that it was way older than the statute of limitations, called them up. The person said “humph, you still owe it,” but no calls since. > > (And it was not on my credit record during the intervening 8 years for some reason.) I am sure they keep calling - I have even experienced this myself. We had a charge improperly applied to an account for merchandise we never received, disputed the charge, and had it removed. Then some months later we got a call from some collection agency (in Texas) trying to get us to pay. At which point I told him that I didn’t intend to pay anything, and didn’t care in the least about anything he cared to say on the matter. And ended the conversation with “Put it in writing, and don’t call again.” _Click_. But he talked directly to us, not by leaving messages on the answering machine. Which is my point. I know, off the top of my head, what matters of “urgent business” I have pending at any given point. And I also know with whom those matters are pending. But none of the people or organizations with which I do business are at all shy about identifying themselves, and especially telling me what the “urgent business” is and why it is indeed urgent. When we bought our house, the realtor could call and leave a message and be treated as urgent. But I knew who the realtor is. When my mother-in-law was ill, the doctor could call us up and we would return any messages immediately. But the office always said, “This is so-and-so from Dr. Smth’s office, and it is concerning Mrs. Mom-in-Law - we need you to do thus-and-so.” A message from a stranger, telling me something is “urgent business” but not identifying what the “business” is or giving any reason _why_ I should believe it to be urgent - that sets off my bullshit detector. It is like seeing the word “AMAZING!” or “Rolex” in an e-mail title. It means this is almost certainly a sales call, or a scam. As, indeed, this turned out to be. So I would not return the call. This would screen out the more lazy of the scammers, who are casting their net wide to try to find people who are easily panicked, and who _would_ return such a call. If the person is diligent enough to actually get me on the line, then he can explain himself and why I should care. If it were a real debt, fine - I would send the money with my apologies. If not, then tell him that you don’t intend to pay debts you don’t owe. If he persists, do the “put it into a registered letter, and don’t call me again” routine and hang up. You don’t ordinarily **have** to talk to anyone on the phone, and it is not necessary to worry about the feelings of someone who is trying to rip you off. Collection agencies operate on a percentage basis. They buy up debts at a discount, and then try to collect enough of the debt to make a profit. Therefore it makes sense for them to concentrate on the more easily collectable debts, and disregard the ones where it is clear that they will never get any money. If you genuinely don’t owe the money, make it clear that you will never pay. Therefore, no matter what, the only response you should ever make, no matter what they say, is to repeat “put it in a registered letter, and don’t call me again”. Then hang up without waiting for a response. Usually, eventually, they get the idea. Then either they put it into a registered letter, to which you respond saying that you don’t acknowledge the debt, or they go away and try to scam the next sucker. It’s annoying, I certainly grant you that. But any time you respond, you are teaching the harasser that the cost of getting you to respond is a certain level of harassment. If he calls six times and you respond on the sixth call, you are teaching him that it takes six calls to get to you. If he calls six times and never gets any response except the same response he got on the first call, you are teaching him that all the calls after the first were a waste of his time. Telemarketers, scammers, and other lumps of curdled vulture vomit are not highly evolved life forms. They need to be trained using basic principles of reinforcement. Respond to something, and you reinforce the behavior. Don’t respond, and you extinguish it. Again, best wishes to **WaryEri** on her upcoming wedding. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/42 "2004-12-17T15:01:50Z")
I agree with you, **Shodan** , but I think an important distinction needs to be made here - don’t ignore calls from collectors with **valid** debts. _They_ don’t go away, the debts don’t go away, and it will probably end up going badly for you in the long run if you don’t deal with legitimate outstanding debts. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/43 "2004-12-17T15:29:29Z")
Just to let you know, this debt may be legitimate. I work for a company that does use a collection agency for debts over a certain period (approximately 5 months). Many of these customers don’t realize they owe because they were throwing our bills away, thinking that they were one of those advertisements some companies use to masquerade as important mail. For example, some customers would call us to say they didn’t order something, and we’d refund it. After they were refunded, they’d dispute the original charge (but not the refund). We’d attempt to collect on the double credit that they had received. They would often call furious and say they’d NEVER pay, even though they did legitimately owe the money, and wouldn’t listen to what actually happened to cause it. I would recommend finding out what the debt is for and calling the company in question as well to find out what you owe for. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/44 "2004-12-17T16:23:00Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I agree with you, **Shodan** , but I think an important distinction needs to be made here - don’t ignore calls from collectors with **valid** debts. _They_ don’t go away, the debts don’t go away, and it will probably end up going badly for you in the long run if you don’t deal with legitimate outstanding debts. Heavens, yes. If you owe the money, by all means pay up. But it is still the duty of the person attempting to collect the debt to make it clear up front who he is, and why he believes you legitimately owe money. If he is right, and you owe the money and still won’t pay, the blame shifts off the debt collector and onto the deadbeat. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/45 "2004-12-17T17:03:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Heavens, yes. If you owe the money, by all means pay up. > > But it is still the duty of the person attempting to collect the debt to make it clear up front who he is, and why he believes you legitimately owe money. If he is right, and you owe the money and still won’t pay, the blame shifts off the debt collector and onto the deadbeat. > > Regards, > Shodan By law, they cannot leave a message, or send a letter that gives another person the opportunity to assume that you might owe a debt. So, they cannot leave a message “This is Jaade from XYZ Collection Agency” or send you a letter marked with the word “Collection” in the title of the company. They must operate under the assumption that some mysterious third party may listen to your answering machine or reading your envelopes in the mail. It’s not that the collectors are always trying to be sneaky, it’s just the law they are required to operate under. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/46 "2004-12-17T19:54:44Z")
> [@Jaade](#): > > By law, they cannot leave a message, or send a letter that gives another person the opportunity to assume that you might owe a debt. So, they cannot leave a message “This is Jaade from XYZ Collection Agency” or send you a letter marked with the word “Collection” in the title of the company. They must operate under the assumption that some mysterious third party may listen to your answering machine or reading your envelopes in the mail. It’s not that the collectors are always trying to be sneaky, it’s just the law they are required to operate under. I did not know that. Thanks for the info! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/47 "2004-12-18T00:51:00Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > The company (Camco) eventually coughed up this information. We looked through our records and determined that we had, in fact, paid this debt. I also did a bit of Googling and found out that Camco has made a practice of buying up old unenforcable debts. I learned that even if we hadn’t paid this debt, it was so old as to be legally invalid. I wrote this up and sent it by registered mail to the company headquarters (NOT the PO box listed in the letter) and noted that I was sending a copy of the letter to the FTC. I said that we were not going to roll over and pay an old debt that had already been paid, and that they were to IMMEDIATELY stop calling us on the phone. > > We never heard from them again. I think that they figured that we weren’t quite the suckers that they prey upon. Lynn, that’s not the only reason you haven’t heard from them… 🙂 Some people’s Mondays are worse than others. [Everyone here’s out of a job. Lock the doors on your way out.](http://www.rrstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041214/OPINION03/412140304/1023) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/48 "2004-12-18T01:10:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But he talked directly to us, not by leaving messages on the answering machine. Which is my point. > > Regards, > Shodan Ah. My wife works from home, and so actually had to deal with this person, who refused to say what she was calling about (which is what is required by the law.) So for me it was a matter of relieving my wife from this hassle. (She never called when I was actually home for some reason.) If it were only messages on the answering machine, it would be different. I figured what it was about, so I did research on the statute of limitations before I called back. But I agree, that if you don’t mind getting all the messages, there is no reason to return the call. I assume they will give up at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/49 "2004-12-18T01:14:52Z")
> [@Jaade](#): > > By law, they cannot leave a message, or send a letter that gives another person the opportunity to assume that you might owe a debt. So, they cannot leave a message “This is Jaade from XYZ Collection Agency” or send you a letter marked with the word “Collection” in the title of the company. They must operate under the assumption that some mysterious third party may listen to your answering machine or reading your envelopes in the mail. It’s not that the collectors are always trying to be sneaky, it’s just the law they are required to operate under. They are also allowed to keep calling as long as they have reason to believe that the call will provide information about the location of the party owing the debt. [Link](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fdc.htm) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/50 "2004-12-18T01:49:36Z")
One of those groups was calling my home phone and I called them back It turned out that an old friend put me down as a reference on a loan that he…um…neglected to pay back. They were just trying to find him. Maybe it’s just a friend of the fiance who owes something. Then there was the deadbeat that had my cell phone number prior to me. I got calls for him for a year and a half. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088/51 "2004-12-18T05:07:00Z")
> [@Portia](#): > > Lynn, that’s not the only reason you haven’t heard from them… 🙂 Some people’s Mondays are worse than others. > > [Everyone here’s out of a job. Lock the doors on your way out.](http://www.rrstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041214/OPINION03/412140304/1023) Oh my. However SHALL I go on, knowing that my complaint might have been a factor in this company’s closing? 😃😃😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudster-collection-agency-has-just-called-my-fiance/280088.md?page=2)