# Fraudulent Dog Adoption **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 12, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349 "2009-11-12T19:36:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/21 "2009-11-12T21:01:21Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > “A nice family in a rural area.” Yeah, right. Lord only knows where he really wound up. ☹ > > She lied to the pound to get the dog. What makes you think she’s telling you the truth about what happened to him … ? I didn’t catch the “rural” detail but this is kind of like “He’s on a farm” for grown ups, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/22 "2009-11-12T21:05:03Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I didn’t catch the “rural” detail but this is kind of like “He’s on a farm” for grown ups, isn’t it? My thoughts were following **pan1** ’s guess - girl is involved with dogfighting and needed a nice big Doberman for a match. If the dog is lucky, she was merely a flake who let doggie go and someone will hopefully find the dog and give him an actual good home. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/23 "2009-11-12T21:05:44Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > If you remember, Ellen DeGeneres adopted a dog, found it was unsuitable for her (because it didn’t get along with her cats, I believe) and then gave the dog to another family. The pet adoption agency found out and repossessed the dog, despite Ellen’s tearful on-camera plea to let it stay with the family she placed it with. Yes, and given that it’s standard operating procedure for pet to be microchipped before being adopted out, it is quite possible that the dog in the OP will be found and seized, probably disrupting its new family. The rule exists to protect the animal because, unlike property like a bicycle, dogs in particular are deeply affected when they lose their family. Our dog suffers from separation anxiety because his ONE set of original owners got rid of him. It is extremely hard on loving dogs to go from owner to owner to owner. The Humane Society here also interview _everyone_ who is to be a part of a dog’s new household. You can’t adopt a dog on another person’s behalf. ETA: And yeah, I"m thinking the “rural home” is a load of BS too and the pound is probably worried sick about the welfare of the animal. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/24 "2009-11-12T21:06:03Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Moral superior judgment that. I won’t get into a discussion on how wrong that is. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11771848#post11771848](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11771848#post11771848) Started my own thread debating it here. Why do you think that’s so wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/25 "2009-11-12T21:08:30Z")
[moderating] This really isn’t a clearly-answerable question, so I’m moving the thread from GD to MPSIMS. This is a topic that can easily get heated–thank you all for being so civil about it. Keeps our jobs easier 😉 [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/26 "2009-11-12T21:11:12Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > [moderating] > This really isn’t a clearly-answerable question, so I’m moving the thread from GD to MPSIMS. > > This is a topic that can easily get heated–thank you all for being so civil about it. Keeps our jobs easier 😉 > [/moderating] Crap. I started another thread in GD because I thought this thread was just about the legal aspects and I wanted to get into the ethics of it and figured it might get heated. Should I not have started my thread? ---
**Author:** ![Logical\_Phallacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Logical\_Phallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logical_Phallacy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/27 "2009-11-12T21:13:02Z")
I’ve been in touch with the new family and they do sound nice. They definitely live in a rural area and there are two teenage kids. There is no dog fighting ring 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/28 "2009-11-12T22:17:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve been in touch with the new family and they do sound nice. They definitely live in a rural area and there are two teenage kids. > > There is no dog fighting ring And people who come to take the “Free Kittens” add you may have in the paper will bring their kids to make them look like a “nice” family still use them as bait for dog fighting or other nefarious purposes. From Wiki (the legal eagles that they are): > [@](#): > > Common law fraud has nine elements: > > 1. a representation of an existing fact; > 2. its materiality; > 3. its falsity; > 4. the speaker’s knowledge of its falsity; > 5. the speaker’s intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff; > 6. plaintiff’s ignorance of its falsity; > 7. plaintiff’s reliance on the truth of the representation; > 8. plaintiff’s right to rely upon it; and > 9. consequent damages suffered by plaintiff. > > Most jurisdictions in the United States require that each element be pled with particularity and be proved with clear, cogent, and convincing evidence (very probable evidence) to establish a claim of fraud. The measure of damages in fraud cases is to be computed by the “benefit of bargain” rule, which is the difference between the value of the property had it been as represented, and its actual value. Special damages may be allowed if shown proximately caused by defendant’s fraud and the damage amounts are proved with specificity. IMHO, you can be proven to have violated all nine. Consequent damages to the plaintiff will include the time and money they spent proving you purposefully lied to them regarding the adoption of the dog. If the dog has come to any harm during the time it was out of the shelter, you would be liable for that harm. Not to mention, that if that dog injures someone or destroys their property, you as the legal owner, are liable for that as well. Under PA law, a pet is considered property, so the most money the shelter could rightfully recoup from you is the cost of the adoption fee and any associated veterinary bills to return the dog to the condition it was when it left the shelter. As a rescue and shelter worker, it’s not about the money, it’s about you misrepresenting yourself. I am assuming the pound you “rescued” the dog from is a 501c3 charity. Can you imagine going for a job or background check of some kind and they see that you were charged with or guilty of committing a fraud against a charitable organization? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/29 "2009-11-12T22:27:28Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Wait—so there’s no penalty for breaking a contract if the other party didn’t lose any money?? Generally in a civil suit, you have to sue for damages. So, you actually have to be damaged, and show what those damages are. In some cases (IANAL) contracts can specify damages for certain things, but they can’t be totally unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/30 "2009-11-12T22:44:20Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Crap. I started another thread in GD because I thought this thread was just about the legal aspects and I wanted to get into the ethics of it and figured it might get heated. Should I not have started my thread? Nope – GD seems like a great place to debate the ethics of this. I’ll leave this thread open for now, for a discussion of the factual/legal side. Please use [**Freudian Slit** ’s thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=539728) for arguments about whether what the OP did was okay or not. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/31 "2009-11-12T22:52:39Z")
> [@Minnie\_Luna](#): > > IMHO, you can be proven to have violated all nine. Consequent damages to the plaintiff will include the time and money they spent proving you purposefully lied to them regarding the adoption of the dog. If the dog has come to any harm during the time it was out of the shelter, you would be liable for that harm. Not to mention, that if that dog injures someone or destroys their property, you as the legal owner, are liable for that as well. Under PA law, a pet is considered property, so the most money the shelter could rightfully recoup from you is the cost of the adoption fee and any associated veterinary bills to return the dog to the condition it was when it left the shelter. > > As a rescue and shelter worker, it’s not about the money, it’s about you misrepresenting yourself. > > I am assuming the pound you “rescued” the dog from is a 501c3 charity. Can you imagine going for a job or background check of some kind and they see that you were charged with or guilty of committing a fraud against a charitable organization? And don’t forget thet the 18-year-old sold the dog for a few hundred dollars. If the dog was mircochipped (as most dogs here are before adoption) and the dog is found. It may be seized and taken away from the new family. That could come back and bite ya in the ass too. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/32 "2009-11-12T23:00:32Z")
what exactly was the point in helping this young girl out? was there another reason why you helped her out? There is in no real way to see some stranger help someone out this way to me. If they can’t get a dog the correct way why in the hell would i want to help them afterwards? Why this specific dog? can she not find an alternative? I dont really understand what made you help this girl. Why would you? Please enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/33 "2009-11-13T04:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The rule exists to protect the animal because, unlike property like a bicycle, dogs in particular are deeply affected when they lose their family. Our dog suffers from separation anxiety because his ONE set of original owners got rid of him. It is extremely hard on loving dogs to go from owner to owner to owner. Cats also get very attached to particular people. When my daughter got a job in another state, she moved there and intended to settle in for a couple of months, looking for a permanent apartment, etc. One of the three cats went into a serious decline, because she was HIS person. The only thing that changed in his living circumstances was that Lisa had moved out. The other two cats were still here with him, the other two humans were still here with him, but HIS person had gone. We had to send him and one of the other cats to our daughter earlier than we had planned to, or he might very well have grieved himself to death. And, of course, when Sapphire found that she was an only kitty, SHE started declining and getting very clingy. My husband and I found ourselves at the Humane Society one day, picking out a kitten and an adult cat, both orange boys. Generally we just wait for a cat to show up at our doorstep, and get new cats that way. It’s sort of like Kitty Kismet. As for the OP, I’m inclined to believe the dogfighting theory. It’s really not that hard to find an adoptable dog, IF you’re willing to take living conditions into account. A Dobie isn’t suited for a small condo, so even if she was telling the complete truth, that dog wasn’t going to a suitable home to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/34 "2009-11-13T04:54:59Z")
> [@BMada](#): > > what exactly was the point in helping this young girl out? was there another reason why you helped her out? There is in no real way to see some stranger help someone out this way to me. If they can’t get a dog the correct way why in the hell would i want to help them afterwards? Why this specific dog? can she not find an alternative? > > I dont really understand what made you help this girl. Why would you? Please enlighten me. I was kind of curious, too. It’s not like the OP knew her and felt bad because she was a friend. Or even like she was a random attractive girl using sex to get him to help her–it was a Craigslist thing. Actually, that is pretty weird. Wouldn’t she just ask a friend or someone? Why an Internet stranger? ---
**Author:** ![Logical\_Phallacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Logical\_Phallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logical_Phallacy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/35 "2009-11-13T05:42:26Z")
ok I have a very simple rebuttal to any anti-trickery argument thus far proposed; i saved this wonderful dog from a lethal injection that was seven days away!! [http://imgur.com/NSKv7.jpg](http://imgur.com/NSKv7.jpg) [http://imgur.com/wRTty.jpg](http://imgur.com/wRTty.jpg) Clearly, the concept of a white lie is lost on some of the participants of this thread! Meanwhile, i don’t feel I can adequately satisfy the curiosities of those of you who question my motives for saving a dog from the pound. I would simply say that it was a very minor inconvenience (an hour of my time on an otherwise boring sunday afternoon) to do what in my mind was a [mitzvah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitzvah). I grew up with a dog of my own who died a few years ago (again not due to a nefarious dog-fighting ring you nuts, she was 16 and had cancer!) and I miss getting to play with dogs. This seemed like a nice opportunity to accomplish all these things. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/36 "2009-11-13T05:44:39Z")
But don’t you think it’s odd that she had to ask a total stranger for this? Why wouldn’t she have at least asked someone she knew? The whole thing just sounds scary. ---
**Author:** ![Logical\_Phallacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Logical\_Phallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logical_Phallacy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/37 "2009-11-13T05:52:44Z")
yes, I fully admit its a bizarre request on her part…but such is the nature of craigslist! I assessed the situation and felt that there was very little likelihood of a scam. I took adequate precautions (I made a pdf of the original craigslist post and archived the ‘chat’ that I had with the girl) and was quite convinced that she had no intention of causing harm to the dog. A small condo is better than certain death 10 times out of 10. Although she turned out to be incapable of handling the dog, she did find him a wonderful home where I’m confident he’ll be happy. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/38 "2009-11-13T05:58:59Z")
don’t get me wrong I love dogs. But I could care less if one is gonna be euthanized. My dog recently to cancer I was there when I saw her die, but I would care less about anyone that wants a dog and can’t get it, and i could care less if a dog died in the world and no one was gonna comfort it. I still tear up from remembering my dog but my feelings are mine. if you were trying to score points with God why not do something like help out at a food kitchen, that’s about the same time it takes to fill out forms take a dog and give it to a stranger. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/39 "2009-11-13T06:01:47Z")
> [@Logical\_Phallacy](#): > > yes, I fully admit its a bizarre request on her part…but such is the nature of craigslist! > > I assessed the situation and felt that there was very little likelihood of a scam. I took adequate precautions (I made a pdf of the original craigslist post and archived the ‘chat’ that I had with the girl) and was quite convinced that she had no intention of causing harm to the dog. > > A small condo is better than certain death 10 times out of 10. Although she turned out to be incapable of handling the dog, she did find him a wonderful home where I’m confident he’ll be happy. I just don’t see how making a PDF and archiving your IM chat means anything. For all you know, the dog could be dead in a dog fight right now. Is that better than being euthanized? ---
**Author:** ![Logical\_Phallacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Logical\_Phallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logical_Phallacy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349/40 "2009-11-13T06:11:40Z")
I was in touch with the family that adopted him today, I feel he is fine. I used my judgment to decide the dog was better off with this girl than in the pound. While she was certainly a let-down, I remain confident she had truly was a dog person and would not have any harm come to him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fraudulent-dog-adoption/517349.md?page=3)