# Freaky Ethical Question from the Harry Potter Universe **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2007, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700 "2007-05-19T06:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/1 "2007-05-19T06:34:24Z")
So I’ve been idly reading some of the old books (actually listening to them on tape) to remind myself of all the story so far in preparation for the final book. And I start thinking about Polyjuice Potion. For those who don’t know or forgot, Polyjuice Potion is a magical formula that, when taken, will temporarily transform someone into the body of another person or animal (provided you have a little something that belongs to that person). And I start wondering about some of the interesting ways one could use this potion, and suddenly it occurs to me how it could be used in the bedroom. Suppose Mr. and Mrs. Weaseley wanted to throw some spice into their love life, they could, if they were so inclined, transform into, say, Gilderoy Lockhart and a veela, and act out some of each of their fantasies. Okay. But from there, of course, the mind quickly reels to more disturbing uses: suppose the Weaseley’s wanted to act out some of their more _verboten_ sexual kinks, and have one or the other turn into a child…an animal…a _relative_… You can proceed from there. The question is, would this be morally wrong? If so, why? It wouldn’t _actually_ be abusing a child; just an adult in a child’s body. And if you think this is all irrelevent because, after all, it’s just a book, here’s a sorta kinda real world analogue: the question about what to do with [virtual pedophilia](http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/4695) on things like Second Life. I imagine this question has occurred to some of the more hardcore HP fans (I can’t imagine there’s _any_ corner of the HP-iverse that hasn’t been thought of); if not, I apologize if it seems like an unredeemably freaky question to ask – my brother thought so, when I made the mistake of asking him (though it did spur him on to an unexpected witticism: “You’d better call Tod Browning, because you are a [FREAK](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022913/)!!”) At the least I suppose it marks me a geek. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/2 "2007-05-19T06:48:23Z")
I think the morally wrong aspect would be from the invasion of privacy it entails; it would not (IMHO) be wrong for someone to use the potion to have sex as a small child (though extremely icky, obviously), but it would be wrong in that those two people would be seeing the child naked without their permission. Same goes for a relative, while an animal would be morally neutral (though technically the Polyjuice Potion doesn’t work with animals). That taken into account, it seems like a good use of it, to me. If wizard pedophiles could have sex with consenting adults in the form of children, I imagine it would stop them having sex with real children. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/3 "2007-05-19T06:54:59Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] (though technically the Polyjuice Potion doesn’t work with animals) [/QUOTE] Didn’t it turn Hermione into a cat in book 2 or 3? You’re right about the invasion of privacy aspect – I hadn’t even thought of that. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/4 "2007-05-19T07:15:22Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] Didn’t it turn Hermione into a cat in book 2 or 3? You’re right about the invasion of privacy aspect – I hadn’t even thought of that. [/QUOTE] It didn’t turn her into an actual cat, but it gave her cat-like characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/5 "2007-05-19T07:15:36Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] Didn’t it turn Hermione into a cat in book 2 or 3? [/QUOTE] It gave her whiskers and a tail, IIRC. So she sort of got stuck halfway between the two. And it took a good time to wear off. I suppose furries could well be interested in that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/6 "2007-05-19T07:42:21Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I think the morally wrong aspect would be from the invasion of privacy it entails; it would not (IMHO) be wrong for someone to use the potion to have sex as a small child (though extremely icky, obviously), but it would be wrong in that those two people would be seeing the child naked without their permission. Same goes for a relative, while an animal would be morally neutral (though technically the Polyjuice Potion doesn’t work with animals). [/QUOTE] But by that logic, isn’t a an invasion of privacy to have sex with an identical twin of the non-magic variety ? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/7 "2007-05-19T08:08:53Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] But by that logic, isn’t a an invasion of privacy to have sex with an identical twin of the non-magic variety ? [/QUOTE] Interesting point. Really not even identical twins are going to be totally identical, especially as they get older. I suppose, technically, it is, but it’s pretty much unavoidable. And unlike with Polyjuice Potion, there would be no _mens rea_; the likeness isn’t a deliberate choice. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/8 "2007-05-19T09:16:40Z")
It doesn’t have to be magical. It’s really just a major extension of fantasizing/role playing; would it be sick if you fantasized about a child/animal/relative while masturbating or having sex with another person? I cannot remember the details, but years ago there was a case involving the discovery of extremely graphic and sexually explicit _drawings_ of children in sexual situations (not Mapplethorpian but fully sexual acts= i.e., were it photography rather than drawings the photographer would have been looking at a sentence of many years in prison). It was ultimately decided that though clearly indicative of a very sick mind they did not constitute child pornography as the artist could not be proven to have actually harmed children or to have based the sexual acts in the drawings on anything in life and they were not publicly displayed (he sold them via a catalog), and he was not charged. I think this is similar: very sick and offensive and you may want to somehow tag the person using the polyjuice potion for future tracking, but not in and of itself harmful or unethical. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/9 "2007-05-19T13:23:38Z")
Metamorphmagi can also take on others’ forms. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/10 "2007-05-19T14:10:54Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] Okay. But from there, of course, the mind quickly reels to more disturbing uses: suppose the Weaseley’s wanted to act out some of their more _verboten_ sexual kinks, and have one or the other turn into a child…an animal…a _relative_… [/quote] “Come on, Molly… just this once… drink the potion…” “Absolutely not, Arthur! What you’re asking, it’s just… it’s weird!” “Oh please! I’m begging you… no one need ever know!” “But this potion… it’s for ME! What’s the point? I’d just be transforming into myself!” “Oh yesss… say it again! Slower…” “You are sick, Arthur! SICK!” > [@](#): > > “You’d better call Tod Browning, because you are a [FREAK](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022913/)!!” That’s great! Let your brother know I’m going to steal this one for my own use. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/11 "2007-05-19T18:45:07Z")
Hm. The intimate use of the potion which most struck me, was that a couple could use it to turn into _each other_. I suspect that’d be an interesting bonding experience, to see what it’s like for your partner. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/12 "2007-05-19T19:35:53Z")
So if you were a man and you converted into a woman for the sake of a sexcapade, could you (no pun intended) conceivably get pregnant? (Or could you impregnate if you were a woman who became a man?) ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/13 "2007-05-19T19:43:49Z")
Polyjuice potion is only supposed to last for an hour. Furthermore, if you **were** pregnant with a child, does the Polyjuice potion affect it too? Does it turn into the same thing you do? What about conjoined twins, for that matter? There’s a pair of conjoined twins in Minnesota who have two hearts but share a circulatory system… what if they took a Polyjuice potion? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/14 "2007-05-20T01:23:40Z")
I’m picturing all manner of “Snapes” or “Professor Binns” being forced to do bizarre sexual things from this thread… Thanks! 😉 I don’t think you could get pregnant while under the influence of PJP. Come to think of it, Hermione took female “bits” (Millicent Bulstrode, if memory serves) and the boys got Draco’s henchmen. Perhaps you can’t switch genders with PJP? Hermione’s feline characteristics were a mistake–a potentially dangerous one, so I doubt one can switch species, either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/15 "2007-05-20T01:29:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Come to think of it, Hermione took female “bits” (Millicent Bulstrode, if memory serves) and the boys got Draco’s henchmen. Perhaps you can’t switch genders with PJP? No specifics in case you haven’t read it, but in Book 6 there’s a cross-gender use of polyjuice. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/16 "2007-05-20T01:43:33Z")
The polyjuice potion is just the tiip of the iceberg for ethical problems with the use of magic. I’d be surprised if the third year Defense against Dark Arts class didn’t include a warning to young witches about certain highly unethical magics that wizards can potentially use- “date rape” potions, etc. The books imply that some spells are much harder than others, that individuals’ ability and power varies widely. Apparently the best the Ministry of Magic can do is proscribe some spells entirely (the three unforgivable curses) and tightly regulate others (the registration of animagi). In book six the British PM says something like “but… it’s MAGIC. I mean, you can do ANYTHING!”. To which the former MoM head says “so can the opposition”. In a way I guess it’s like in real life where there’s nothing physically stopping you from killing people, committing rape or dealing drugs… except the brutal retribution of society. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/17 "2007-05-20T02:31:29Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] No specifics in case you haven’t read it, but in Book 6 there’s a cross-gender use of polyjuice. [/QUOTE] Where? Oh…whathisnames mother–Mrs Crouch and her son. I forgot. [Emily Latella] Never mind.[/EL] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/18 "2007-05-20T04:31:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d be surprised if the third year Defense against Dark Arts class didn’t include a warning to young witches about certain highly unethical magics that wizards can potentially use- “date rape” potions, etc. And vice-versa. In the Muggle world, it’s difficult for a woman to rape a man, but for magical sorts, rape by love potion (such as what Voldemort’s mother did to his father) is probably distressingly common. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/19 "2007-05-20T04:43:40Z")
I don’t get the invasion of privacy angle, any more than I did when _Star Trek: TNG_ raised it during their interminable holodeck episodes. Besides, who’s to know? ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700/20 "2007-05-20T05:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] And vice-versa. In the Muggle world, it’s difficult for a woman to rape a man, but for magical sorts, rape by love potion (such as what Voldemort’s mother did to his father) is probably distressingly common. [/QUOTE] I seem to recall in book 6, Ron ate some chocolates that had a love potion in them, and Harry had to stop him from chasing after the girl who made them before he did something he’d regret later. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freaky-ethical-question-from-the-harry-potter-universe/404700.md?page=2)