# Fred Barnes on "Bush's Achievements" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278 "2009-01-14T17:16:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/21 "2009-01-14T19:11:47Z")
It’s entirely possible that **Liberal** actually knew Buckley. I would have liked to, but I’m of a different generation on a different coast and not the sort of person Buckley would have hung out with. The list does read like satire, but Barnes is dead serious. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/22 "2009-01-14T19:12:55Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s perhaps unremarkable that the smirky Mr. Barnes failed to include Bush’s actual best achievement: his attention to Africa, particularly countries with AIDS epidemics. Agreed. This is a wonderful achievement and I do need to be reminded of it, because I like to think that everyone has some redeeming features. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/23 "2009-01-14T19:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. “Second, enhanced interrogation of terrorists.” Not to belabor the point, but ya isn’t this great. “Enhanced interrogation”, aka torture, has really been beneficial. Col. Crawford (a retired judge who was appointed convening authority of military commissions in February 2007) said recently: > [@](#): > > “His (Mohammed al-Qahtani, a Saudi man who allegedly had hoped to become the “20th hijacker”) treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that is why I did not refer the case for prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/24 "2009-01-14T19:39:55Z")
Fred Barnes thinks NCLB and the medicare expansions were good things? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/25 "2009-01-14T19:55:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And what planet is Barnes living on, that he thinks the scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate change has “collapsed”? 😕 > > (Expecting **brazil84** in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . .) Not in the Pit. In GD he can spread his bullshit without being called what he is for spreading it. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/26 "2009-01-14T19:57:50Z")
That’s insane. He left out the two actual good things that the Bush administration accomplished! [PEPFAR](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPFAR) [Creating a massive maritime monument.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papah%C4%81naumoku%C4%81kea_Marine_National_Monument) I guess protecting the environment and saving the lives of millions of people in impoverished countries doesn’t quite compare with torturing terror suspects and preventing the US from participating in the Kyoto Protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/27 "2009-01-14T20:02:47Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s entirely possible that **Liberal** actually knew Buckley. I would have liked to, but I’m of a different generation on a different coast and not the sort of person Buckley would have hung out with. _sigh_ They don’t make conservatives like Bill Buckley any more. In 1965, when he was running for mayor of New York, someone asked him the first thing he’d do if elected. His answer: “Demand a recount.” I did meet his brother at a campaign rally when Jim was running for senator. That was back when I was young, stupid, and conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/28 "2009-01-14T20:51:37Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Not in the Pit. In GD he can spread his bullshit without being called what he is for spreading it. Yes, which is why TomnDebbs “Liars, lying, and lies in Great Debates” rules suck. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/29 "2009-01-14T21:02:44Z")
Y’know, I can remember watching _The Capitol Gang_ back in the mid-80s (I was a weird politically-aware kid) and for some reason I seem to remember Fred Barnes as being one of the more moderate of the conservatives on that show. Did he change, or did all the people around him change? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/30 "2009-01-14T21:05:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And what planet is Barnes living on, that he thinks the scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate change has “collapsed”? 😕 > > (Expecting **brazil84** in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . .) 😃 #1 I’m amazed as under Bush and despite his stonewalling in the beginning, the US Government acknowledges the need to fight anthropogenic climate change. I guess like a few others Fred Barnes thinks consensus means unanimous. #2 and #3 are just frightening that they could be thought of as achievements. No true conservative would consider #3 a positive achievement. #4 was a failure. Israel is less secure today than it was in 2000. #5 is still open to debate. But I’ll give him that one as I don’t know enough to debate it. #6 A wonderful thing to say. How’s that going so far? #7 Why? Seriously, I don’t see why this was so great. Was it? #8 OK, I get this. In fact though more conservative than I like they both appear to be qualified for the job. #9 WTF? #10 The surge was only needed as he so royally screwed up in the first place in both getting us into an war without reason and then mishandling. But yes, the surge appears to be helping correct the second mistake years later. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/31 "2009-01-14T21:06:36Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > _sigh_ They don’t make conservatives like Bill Buckley any more. In 1965, when he was running for mayor of New York, someone asked him the first thing he’d do if elected. His answer: “Demand a recount.” It’s a lot easier to admire Buckley in retrospect, given the kind of “conservatives” we seem to have coming out of the woodwork today. He actually had an intellectual philosophy of conservatism, which I disagree with but recognize as being superior to the kneejerk “conservatism” of modern Republicanism. But, really, I just could not get past the essential _priggishness_ of the man. It made listening to him (on radio or TV) or reading him a chore. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/32 "2009-01-14T22:46:50Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It’s a lot easier to admire Buckley in retrospect, given the kind of “conservatives” we seem to have coming out of the woodwork today. He actually had an intellectual philosophy of conservatism, which I disagree with but recognize as being superior to the kneejerk “conservatism” of modern Republicanism. > > But, really, I just could not get past the essential _priggishness_ of the man. It made listening to him (on radio or TV) or reading him a chore. I believe [David Icke](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_icke) named Buckley as one of the extraterrestrial “reptilian humanoids” who can transform into a lizard. In Buckley’s case I could actually believe it. I saw him give a university lecture once; dude just had this reptilian quality to him. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/33 "2009-01-15T02:21:32Z")
I used to like Freddy “the Beatle” (or was it “Beetle?”) Barnes, but that was a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/34 "2009-01-15T03:03:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I believe [David Icke](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_icke) named Buckley as one of the extraterrestrial “reptilian humanoids” who can transform into a lizard. In Buckley’s case I could actually believe it. I saw him give a university lecture once; dude just had this reptilian quality to him. The shape-shifting alien reptiles thing is actually David Icke’s _less crazy_ theory. [QUOTE=Wikipedia] In an interview on the Terry Wogan show that year, he announced that he was “the son of God,”[13] and that Britain would be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes. His statements were met with laughter and ridicule from the studio audience, derision in the press, and suggestions that he was mentally ill. Icke later said that he had been misinterpreted by the media. According to Icke, he used the term “the son of God” “… in the sense of being an aspect, as I understood it at the time, of the Infinite consciousness that is everything. As I have written before, we are like droplets of water in an ocean of infinite consciousness.” [/QUOTE] Anyway, Bush’s greatest achievement was to raise awareness of the choking hazard presented by the evil pretzel. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/35 "2009-01-15T03:06:08Z")
Y’know, today I read that a poll has Bush’s popularity going UP in the past month (by like 20 percent among conservatives/Republicans - I can’t remember which - and something like 10-15% overall). I guess those who disagree with Obama’s policies are entering the “I remember what I used to like about Bush” phase. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/36 "2009-01-15T03:08:49Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s a lot easier to admire Buckley in retrospect, given the kind of “conservatives” we seem to have coming out of the woodwork today. He actually had an intellectual philosophy of conservatism, which I disagree with but recognize as being superior to the kneejerk “conservatism” of modern Republicanism. Buckley also felt that conservatives should have standards. If some conservative did something foolish or unsavory, Buckley would chastise them and tell them they were letting down the movement. Nowadays, too often conservatives just close ranks, deny everything, and say it’s someone else’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/37 "2009-01-15T03:11:10Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > …But, really, I just could not get past the essential _priggishness_ of the man. It made listening to him (on radio or TV) or reading him a chore. Then you’ve not read the steaming sex scenes in his Blackford Oakes spy novels. Its like porno written by an adding machine. ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278/38 "2009-01-15T04:05:41Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s perhaps unremarkable that the smirky Mr. Barnes failed to include Bush’s actual best achievement: his attention to Africa, particularly countries with AIDS epidemics. Hear hear. It’s the one good spot on a depressing eight years. Hopefully history will reward him for what he’s done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-barnes-on-bushs-achievements/481278.md?page=1)