# Fred Phelps banned from entering UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542 "2009-02-19T13:12:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/21 "2009-02-20T12:13:43Z")
Maybe Phelps can protest the Somali pirates or the Mexican Drug lords that have taken over Mexico. If he comes back God isn’t punishing him. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/22 "2009-02-20T17:05:30Z")
I dunno. As much as I loathe Fred Phelps, I am a little disappointed that the UK still has so little freedom of speech. Yes, he’s a dick and yes he preaches a horrible, hateful message, and going to a foreign country to preach that message is an even more reprehensible move…but the British government could have handled it much better by shrugging and saying, “Fine, we don’t give a damn what you say.” Let the come, don’t make an issue out of it, and then the government has the moral high ground in most people’s eyes. \*It’s never happened here and I’d imagine it’s less likely in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/23 "2009-02-20T19:07:27Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I dunno. As much as I loathe Fred Phelps, I am a little disappointed that the UK still has so little freedom of speech. Yes, he’s a dick and yes he preaches a horrible, hateful message, and going to a foreign country to preach that message is an even more reprehensible move…but the British government could have handled it much better by shrugging and saying, “Fine, we don’t give a damn what you say.” Let the come, don’t make an issue out of it, and then the government has the moral high ground in most people’s eyes. > > \*It’s never happened here and I’d imagine it’s less likely in Britain. You wonder what they are so scared of happening. That someone in Britain might actually believe Phelps? They should brush up on their very own John Stuart Mill: > [@](#): > > “The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.” ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/24 "2009-02-20T19:18:10Z")
It’s too bad the UK wouldn’t let him enter. We could have acted under the Patriot Act to keep him from coming home. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/25 "2009-02-20T20:30:01Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I dunno. As much as I loathe Fred Phelps, I am a little disappointed that the UK still has so little freedom of speech. Still has so little freedom of speech? What are you talking about? Freedom of speech is a contract between governments and the population of a country. It doesn’t entail allowing every nutter into the country, from abroad, to cause havoc. The case with the Dutch MP was different: there is a treaty obligation to allow him free entry. Fred Phelps? We have no obligation to let him enter. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/26 "2009-02-20T20:43:27Z")
Fred Phelps would be an undesirable entrant into a country that’s not particularly charmed by his real-life trolling. And it’s a hell of a lot easier to keep him from coming in than throwing him out again once he’s crossed the border. Good on the UK for this one. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/27 "2009-02-20T20:50:34Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Personally, I’d love to see the clan on a plane. How hard would it be to bait them into causing a disturbance that’d have federal air marshalls all over their asses? Would YOU want to sit next to Fred Phelps on a ten hour\* overseas flight? :eek: \*I have no idea how long a flight from Topeka (or KCI, more likely) to London actually takes, but I’d likely be slitting my wrists shortly after take-off… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/28 "2009-02-20T20:58:37Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Would YOU want to sit next to Fred Phelps on a ten hour\* overseas flight? :eek: > > \*I have no idea how long a flight from Topeka (or KCI, more likely) to London actually takes, but I’d likely be slitting my wrists shortly after take-off… Can you imagine? He’d probably be praying for it to crash, just to punish all the sinners on board. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/29 "2009-02-20T23:54:40Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Still has so little freedom of speech? What are you talking about? Freedom of speech is a contract between governments and the population of a country. It doesn’t entail allowing every nutter into the country, from abroad, to cause havoc. > > The case with the Dutch MP was different: there is a treaty obligation to allow him free entry. Fred Phelps? We have no obligation to let him enter. Well, there’s no compelling evidence that he’ll cause havoc of any sort. And I think that denying someone a temporary visa on the basis of “I don’t like your religious views” is somewhat…questionable, because it’s approaching the state dictating that there are Right and Wrong religious views. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/30 "2009-02-21T00:06:58Z")
You do realize that freedom of speech has absolutely zilch to do with border entry requirements, right? How do you think random searches would go over if they were subject to Constitutional challenge? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/31 "2009-02-21T01:37:27Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Would YOU want to sit next to Fred Phelps on a ten hour\* overseas flight? :eek: > > \*I have no idea how long a flight from Topeka (or KCI, more likely) to London actually takes, but I’d likely be slitting my wrists shortly after take-off… I sure all hell wouldn’t resort to slitting _my_ wrists. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/32 "2009-02-21T09:30:00Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Well, there’s no compelling evidence that he’ll cause havoc of any sort. That’s laughable, given that causing havoc is what Fred Phelps and the WBC do best. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/33 "2009-02-21T10:47:47Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Well, there’s no compelling evidence that he’ll cause havoc of any sort. And I think that denying someone a temporary visa on the basis of “I don’t like your religious views” is somewhat…questionable, because it’s approaching the state dictating that there are Right and Wrong religious views. Come on! No compelling evidence he’d cause havoc? This is a guy who made a name for himself picketing military funerals. It’s a given that he’d cause havoc, and that’s, in all likelihood, the reason why he was coming to the UK. And really, the state isn’t saying anything about his religion. The UK isn’t banning Christians, or even fundamental Christians, from entering. Rather, it’s banning an odious man from entering the country, for his safety, our own, and for the public good. (It’s not like banning entry to undesirables is a British peculiarity, as well. Every nation on the Earth does it.) ---
**Author:** ![Ellef](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8dc957/32.png) [@Ellef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellef)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/34 "2009-02-21T21:56:34Z")
News from the UK: Only one person turned up at the planned demonstration! > **[BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Planned anti-gay demo falls flat](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/7903344.stm)** > > A threatened mass protest by an anti-gay US church fails to materialise when only one demonstrator turns up. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/35 "2009-02-21T22:17:00Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Well, there’s no compelling evidence that he’ll cause havoc of any sort. And I think that denying someone a temporary visa on the basis of “I don’t like your religious views” is somewhat…questionable, because it’s approaching the state dictating that there are Right and Wrong religious views. This is supposed to be a Protestant country with an Established Religion, so yes, we can say there are Right and Wrong religious views. We extend toleration to other religions, but toleration is all it is. As it is, we have a sufficient supply of home-grown bigots without importing some of yours. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/36 "2009-02-22T01:49:53Z")
> [@Ellef](#): > > News from the UK: Only one person turned up at the planned demonstration! > > [BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Planned anti-gay demo falls flat](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7903344.stm) And he just showed up because he’d heard the authorities would be searching buttocks for WBC tattoos. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542/37 "2009-02-22T02:01:21Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > God hates eleventy eyed bug monster fags. God may hate _them_, but _they_ love our brains. Who do you think is behind the Hulu Conspiracy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-banned-from-entering-uk/486542.md?page=1)