# Fred Phelps is dying. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820 "2014-03-16T05:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/141 "2014-03-17T19:43:03Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > That just means you have to think long-range. ‘Water’ balloon launchers are always fun. Spud guns are fun. Spud guns tweaked to fire yoghurt sabots are more fun. Spud guns tweaked to fire excrement ? Now we’re cooking with diesel ! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/142 "2014-03-17T19:44:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If the Westboro Baptist Church excommunicated Phelps, does that mean they got tired of his God-Hates-Fags message, or that they’re prepared to carry on proclaiming it without him? Here’s [their Twitter account](https://twitter.com/WBCSays). You tell me what they’ve been up to for the last 4 months. ---
**Author:** ![Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kansas_Beekeeper)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/143 "2014-03-17T20:16:21Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > This whole “excommunicated” thing intrigues me to no end. I wonder if we’ll ever find out what actually happened to cause this? Here’s an article on the excommunication from the Topeka Capitol Journal, saying essentially it was just an internal power struggle: > **[Elders excommunicate Phelps after power struggle, call for kindness within...](https://www.cjonline.com/story/news/politics/state/2014/03/17/elders-excommunicate-phelps-after-power-struggle-call-kindness-within-church/987276007/)** > > Pastor Fred Waldron Phelps Sr. was excommunicated from the Westboro Baptist Church after advocating a kinder approach between church members. > The excommunication occurred after the formation of a b… ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/144 "2014-03-17T20:40:48Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Even if he was sexually molested as a boy scout, or merely never recovered from the untimely death of his mother, none of that matters. Everyone should be accountable for their own personal actions, and blaming stupid shit like childhood trauma is NO excuse. And frankly, I’m disgusted that our modern society always tends to play the “Victim Card”, even with people who’ve NEVER claimed to be victimized at all, ever. That’s true. Some people need to have “Get Over It” by the Eagles played at them on an endless loop. _“You bitch about the present and blame it on the past. I’d like to find your inner child and kick its little ass.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/145 "2014-03-17T20:40:52Z")
Here’s some of the other articles in today’s Capital-Journal. [http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/...ntered-hospice](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/...ntered-hospice) [http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-17/...excommunicated](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-17/...excommunicated) [http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/...survive-beyond](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/...survive-beyond) [http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/...llingness-hate](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/...llingness-hate) It sounds to me like a power struggle. A man named Steve Drain, who joined the WBC and brought his family with him(one daughter got away) is now the church spokeperson. One article mentions how he now answers when someone tries to contact Shirley Phelps-Roper, the former spokesperson. And some of the church members, all male, have formed a board of elders. Sounds like the rank and file men thought the women were getting uppity and are taking more charge. I did once hear Fred say, on a talk show, that “women can’t be preachers!” No link for a cite, it was quite a while back, the talk show host was someone named Rolanda. I do have the interview on VHS tape but it would take a long time to dig out. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/146 "2014-03-17T20:50:29Z")
Merged two threads about this. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/147 "2014-03-17T20:58:43Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > I like a quote from the article on _Daily Kos_: > > Plus WBC once gave [Comic-Con the chance to be real heroes.](http://comicsalliance.com/super-heroes-vs-the-westboro-baptist-church/) I liked Bender the best! ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/148 "2014-03-17T21:15:47Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Sounds like the rank and file men thought the women were getting uppity and are taking more charge. I did once hear Fred say, on a talk show, that “women can’t be preachers!” No link for a cite, it was quite a while back, the talk show host was someone named Rolanda. I do have the interview on VHS tape but it would take a long time to dig out. As you know, they take a **very** literalist interpretation of the Bible, and there is at least one passage that mentions that women should be silent in church. Hence (according to that belief) women can’t be preachers. Several of his past pronouncements (sorry, I’m not going to wade through the web site to find them again) make it clear he believed that. Hopefully, those power struggles and “surprise” excommunications mean that they will self-destruct and break apart fairly soon. It’s going to be hard for multiple splinter groups to be the same sort of nuisance they were. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/149 "2014-03-17T23:04:14Z")
I’m curious about something. The old fart was supposedly “admitted to” West Point at the age of 16. Well, going by my brother’s experience with attending the USMA, I’d have to say that’s not accurate. First off, one is appointed to the USMA. Second, at 16 years old? When was the last time a cadet was appointed at that age? Also, when was Phelps actually a cadet at USMA? Is there any proof from the institution itself, not from Phelps and his crowd? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/150 "2014-03-17T23:21:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m curious about something. The old fart was supposedly “admitted to” West Point at the age of 16. Well, going by my brother’s experience with attending the USMA, I’d have to say that’s not accurate. First off, one is appointed to the USMA. Second, at 16 years old? When was the last time a cadet was appointed at that age? Also, when was Phelps actually a cadet at USMA? Is there any proof from the institution itself, not from Phelps and his crowd? Wiki cites that to [this](http://cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps01.shtml) 1994 article from the _Topeka Capital-Journal,_ which says: > [@](#): > > The year 1946 marked a turning point in Phelps’ life. That year, he was graduated from high school and preparing to attend the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. He had been groomed for a West Point appointment all his life and had secured an appointment to the military academy from Mississippi’s Fifth Congressional district. But no source is cited. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/151 "2014-03-17T23:23:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Wiki cites that to [this](http://cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps01.shtml) 1994 article from the _Topeka Capital-Journal,_ which says: > > But no source is cited. According to that story, BTW, apparently young Phelps was always a very talented, capable fellow. Who knows what he could’ve been if he’d taken a different path. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/152 "2014-03-17T23:37:02Z")
One thing for sure, the cumulative level of hate in the world will drop significantly with his passing. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/153 "2014-03-17T23:44:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > According to that story, BTW, apparently young Phelps was always a very talented, capable fellow. Who knows what he could’ve been if he’d taken a different path. That summer after high school was the time he went on a mission trip out west. With two older men. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/154 "2014-03-17T23:50:05Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Hopefully, those power struggles and “surprise” excommunications mean that they will self-destruct and break apart fairly soon. It’s going to be hard for multiple splinter groups to be the same sort of nuisance they were. In one of the articles I posted a link to there is this quote: \*Nate Phelps said a male member of Westboro Baptist Church doesn’t necessarily have to have formal theological training to be selected as the new pastor, Nate Phelps said. Fred Phelps Sr. “was clear throughout his career that the church of Christ is a local independent entity and not beholden to any hierarchy beyond that local church. So if he decides as the head of that church that someone has demonstrated God’s grace and ability and understanding of the doctrines of faith, he could ordain him just fine,” Nate Phelps said. “Anyone there as long as my siblings could get up and do the same job as the old man has done. They’ve heard (the preachings) a million times,” Nate Phelps said. Nate Phelps guesses that his brother Tim Phelps or church spokesman Steve Drain, who both have “shown the fire,” are top candidates.\* Tim Phelps is a lieutenant in the Shawnee County sheriff’s department. Steve Drain is a non family member of the WBC. He came to do a story on it, and I guess he liked what he saw, so his family got dragged along. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/155 "2014-03-18T01:25:03Z")
Like I’m really surprised these guys are autocephallic. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/156 "2014-03-18T03:42:02Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > One thing for sure, the cumulative level of hate in the world will drop significantly with his passing. Sadly, I don’t think you’re quite right about this. He devoted his life to creating an engine of hate, which may continue to function and spew bile long after he’s gone. This is the real tragedy of his life: what he chose as his legacy. I can only hope that his survivors are able to break away from the gravity of his hatred. I can’t bring myself to celebrate anyone’s death, not even that of an enemy. But I can’t really mourn someone as vile as Phelps, either. I sincerely hope no one pickets his funeral, though. He doesn’t deserve the attention or recognition, and it would be sad to see decent people stooping down to his level. Let him pass and be forgotten, and hope that his “church” soon peters out without him. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/157 "2014-03-18T04:06:25Z")
Can we cut off his head and drive a stake through his heart to make sure he stays dead? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/158 "2014-03-18T04:27:38Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > Can we cut off his head and drive a stake through his heart to make sure he stays dead? \ That goes in his mouth. And if you want to be certain, bury his head between his knees and his body at a crossroads, with no marker. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/159 "2014-03-18T04:45:29Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Like I’m really surprised these guys are autocephallic. I actually googled that. What a disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820/160 "2014-03-18T06:14:55Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > These five articles appear in today’s Topeka Capital-Journal. All are related in one way or another to Fred and his legacy. > > [Elders excommunicate Phelps after power struggle, call for kindness within church](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-17/elders-excommunicate-phelps-after-power-struggle-call-kindness-within-church) > > [http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/wbc-spokesman-said-fred-phelps-sr-was-healthy-month-he-entered-hospice](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/wbc-spokesman-said-fred-phelps-sr-was-healthy-month-he-entered-hospice) > > [Ex-WBC member Lauren Drain calls report that Fred Phelps has been excommunicated 'devastating'](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-17/ex-wbc-member-lauren-drain-calls-report-fred-phelps-has-been-excommunicated) > > [http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/son-fred-phelps-sr-westboro-baptist-church-anti-gay-picketing-will-survive-beyond](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/son-fred-phelps-sr-westboro-baptist-church-anti-gay-picketing-will-survive-beyond) > > [http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/phelps-likely-be-remembered-willingness-hate](http://cjonline.com/news/2014-03-16/phelps-likely-be-remembered-willingness-hate) All broken links. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-is-dying/683820.md?page=9)