# Fred Phelps was a civil rights activist?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014 "2012-08-01T01:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stauderhorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Stauderhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stauderhorse)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/1 "2012-08-01T01:30:04Z")
I was watching “Fall from Grace”, one of the documentaries on Fred Phelps and his band of crazies, and went to Wikipedia to check how old he is. There I found out that at one point in his life, Mr. Phelps was actually a civil rights activist. According to Wiki: > [@](#): > > The first notable cases were related to civil rights. “I systematically brought down the Jim Crow laws of this town,” he claims…Phelps took cases on behalf of African-American clients alleging racial discrimination by school systems…Phelps also sued President Ronald Reagan over Reagan’s appointment of a U.S. ambassador to the Vatican, alleging this violated separation of church and state…Phelps’ law firm…represented two female professors alleging discrimination in Kansas universities. Essentially, he fought on behalf of black people and women who felt they were being discriminated against, and even sued the president to ensure the separation of church and state. I know Fred Phelps’ actions are not those of a rational man, but I don’t understand how he could fight for civil liberties of certain groups, then turn around and harass the hell out of another group. Does this make sense to anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/2 "2012-08-01T01:33:15Z")
As I understand it: 1. There was good money in it. 2. This was before he went full-bore crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/3 "2012-08-01T01:37:34Z")
And from my understanding (expanding on **Maggie** ’s point), from an interview I heard with one of the sons who escaped (Nate?) - Fred did it because few to no other lawyers would defend them. He was racist, but saw this was an amazing opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/4 "2012-08-01T02:19:42Z")
And most of his lawsuits were frivolous ones, from what I remember. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/5 "2012-08-01T02:21:35Z")
They were straight blacks? ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/6 "2012-08-01T02:35:39Z")
He didn’t give a shit about black people. He just saw an opportunity to make money and took it. The whole thing is explained in “Addicted To Hate”: [Addicted to Hate](http://blank.org/addict/) Basically, everything the guy does is centered around abusing and terrorizing his family. Even the anti–gay stuff is really just meant to be a way of alienating his abused children from the rest of society by making normal people hate them more than it is about trying to accomplish any sort of social agenda. His family is basically a family being held captive by an unbelievably nasty abuser. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/7 "2012-08-01T04:02:18Z")
Already been covered, but I’ll cover it again. Phelps was not an activist, he was a civil rights _lawyer_, and rumor has it that not all of his clients were represented in good faith, and possibly not with their consent. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/8 "2012-08-01T05:08:35Z")
For that matter he managed to get a few thousand votes in a primary. That’s what really scares me. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/9 "2012-08-01T11:32:03Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > He didn’t give a shit about black people. He just saw an opportunity to make money and took it. > The whole thing is explained in “Addicted To Hate”: [Addicted to Hate](http://blank.org/addict/) > > . I just spent some hours reading the whole thing. Very interesting, not so much about Phelps, but about severely abused children and their perceptions and behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/10 "2012-08-01T12:37:44Z")
As always the answer can be found in the words of _Rustlers’ Rhapsody_: Rex O’Herlihan: You’re not a good guy at all! Bob Barber: I’m a lawyer, you idiot! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/11 "2012-08-01T12:56:36Z")
> [@Stauderhorse](#): > > I know Fred Phelps’ actions are not those of a rational man, but I don’t understand how he could fight for civil liberties of certain groups, then turn around and harass the hell out of another group. Does this make sense to anyone else? I see this everyday with religious people. They aren’t working on logic, they are driven by what they think their god wants. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/12 "2012-08-01T13:17:07Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I just spent some hours reading the whole thing. Very interesting, not so much about Phelps, but about severely abused children and their perceptions and behavior. It’s too bad that when they were growing up society didn’t pay attention to wife beating and child abuse as much as we do now. If his wife had been able to find another place to stay the time that she tried to run away with all the kids, we wouldn’t see the whole family involved in this craziness. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/13 "2012-08-01T15:00:01Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I see this everyday with religious people. They aren’t working on logic, they are driven by what they think their god wants. I wouldn’t be surprised if he turned out to be a closet atheist. The whole family is filled with lawyers. The whole anti-gay thing is a trolling move to enrage people to attack members of their group and violate their Civil Rights. The quickly file suit and win big money from it. The Phelps family is anything but dumb. It is a weird combination of a weird psychological experiment and a money-making stunt. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/14 "2012-08-01T16:47:25Z")
[I’ll take Infamous Civil Rights Activists for 1000, Alex.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_jones#Integrationist) ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/15 "2012-08-01T17:08:15Z")
> [@Stauderhorse](#): > > I know Fred Phelps’ actions are not those of a rational man, but I don’t understand how he could fight for civil liberties of certain groups, then turn around and harass the hell out of another group. Does this make sense to anyone else? It’s because people don’t divide neatly into good and bad. People who have some abhorrent ideas can still do good things. People can change over time, for better or for worse. [George Wallace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace) renounced his segregationist ideas later in life. There’s no reason people can’t renounce good ideas, too. It would sure make life easier if people did divide neatly into good and bad people, but there’s no evidence that they do, and plenty that they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/16 "2012-08-01T19:52:01Z")
Part of what Phelps is doing has nothing to do with religion. The group’s goal is to incite people to take action against them, and maybe even attack them. They then go down to the nearest courthouse and file suit. Some people I know were protesting Phelps by offering them cookies (to show that they didn’t bother them). One tapped one of Phelps person on the shoulder and she whirled around, shouting she was being attacked (though she didn’t pursue it when she saw that it wasn’t an attack). The reason why they can do things like that is because the don’t really believe a word their saying; they’re only protesting to incite a reaction that they can sue someone for. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/17 "2012-08-01T21:46:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > For that matter he managed to get a few thousand votes in a primary. That’s what really scares me. That was in 1992, before he was as well known as a hate-monger. Many of his votes came from the western part of the state. He was running as a Democratic candidate in the primary before the general US Senate race. He got about 2% of the vote. The winning candidate was Gloria O’Dell. She lost out in the general election to Bob Dole, but did get about 31% of the vote to his 62%. That was Dole’s last run for the Senate, in 1996 he had a go at the Presidency and, thank God above, did not win. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/18 "2012-08-03T18:14:23Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > It’s too bad that when they were growing up society didn’t pay attention to wife beating and child abuse as much as we do now. If his wife had been able to find another place to stay the time that she tried to run away with all the kids, we wouldn’t see the whole family involved in this craziness. When I read this part I wondered if there really wasn’t any place to go at the time for a woman fleeing a violent abuser with her kids. Does someone know? ETA : “at the time” would be around 1970, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/19 "2012-08-04T13:50:11Z")
I opened this thread hoping for a eulogy comment. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014/20 "2012-08-04T14:08:33Z")
> [@Sasquatch](#): > > I opened this thread hoping for a eulogy comment. Oh well. No such luck. When the time comes I’m hoping to be the first to post about it, since Phred and I live in the same city. I could hear about it and be first to trumpet the news, before it gets to the wire services. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fred-phelps-was-a-civil-rights-activist/630014.md?page=2)