# Free birth control lowers abortion rate dramatically **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810 "2012-10-05T14:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/41 "2012-10-05T20:23:47Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > If you’re going to open the can that sex is natural then be prepared to swallow that sex is natural as a means of reproduction, not because it ‘feels good.’ That’s not a compelling argument or at least respectfully it shouldn’t be. My dog was a breeder. She was not interested in sex until she came into season. Humans are not designed that way. Sex for us is natural for reproduction and for feeling good. Perhaps we evolved that way for pair bonding. Nonetheless, pretending that kids are not going to do it is crazy, no matter what we teach. > [@](#): > > I was going to reverse this one on you, but then I thought that actually..an alarm would be more useful than a locked door and then on that I forgot what I was going to say… Locks and alarms together are even better. Given STDs, the pill and a condom might be the way to go. > [@](#): > > Kids wouldn’t have to use any if they didn’t have sex… not sure why this is hard to grasp. You seem to think that it’s inevitable kids are going to screw like monkeys, so give them all the tools that way it’s safe. I said, tell them about it, nurture them and also let them know it’s NOT a good idea till they’re older. Then if it happens, it happens, but that was their choice and it’s life. You on the other hand want to give them all the tools and hope that your ‘talks’ are enough to discourage them from going and doing it. > > That’s just as folly as what you’re suggesting about pro abstinence. In other words, punish them for not listening to you, in a very severe way. Have you done this by any chance, or is it just theoretical to you? A parent telling a pregnant kid “see, I told you. It’s your fault!” shouldn’t expect a close relationship in the future. Discourage them from doing anything when they were too young, yeah, that worked. Discouraging them from being promiscuous, that worked too. But we didn’t even try to discourage them from sex before marriage. That is unrealistic and hypocritical. In fact they both knew that we thought that getting married before having sex is just dumb. One of them is married and the other will probably be married within the year. So I speak from experience. > [@](#): > > Punished? If you want to see it that way. We all have to pay for our mistakes. The only mistake here is not using birth control. > [@](#): > > Wrong. Free birth control gives people more of a moral license to have sex with less respect for what it means, and to treat it more casually than it needs to be (people already do that enough…). That’s it. I’ve been married over 30 years and I guess I still don’t have enough respect for sex. We’re past reproductive age, and it is still fun. It is sad to think otherwise. > [@](#): > > It does not promise that they’ll actually use it, or remember to. In fact, it wouldn’t be a stretch to think that people who want to have reckless sexual relations will do so no matter what (as you’ve hinted at). Whether they take birth control seems to be more of a peace of mind thing for you so you can sleep better. And I assume we’re still talking about younger people - because I’m not concerned about twenty somethings who are on birth control, because the guy likes to ejaculate inside rather than pulling out. [/QUOTE] No, it is preventing a disruptive pregnancy. Even more important for those opposed to abortion. And I care more about my kids sleeping well than me. (We’ve never even had a scare, btw.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/42 "2012-10-05T20:25:23Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Sex is not immoral. Yeah, I’m also a little hard-pressed to picture a consenting sexual contact between teenagers as demonstrating their immorality. Just educate them on the mechanics and consequences and make the remedies available to them. I don’t understand what the big deal is. I mean, teenagers having sex… so? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/43 "2012-10-05T20:27:21Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > P.S. How absurd is it that (put morals aside here…) we’re talking about birth control for children who aren’t legally of age to have sex!!! Perspective..we really need some! How absurd is it that we’re programmed to want to have sex when we hit puberty, and yet for some reason you think that it should be repressed due to ‘morals’ you personally hold. On the bright side, every time I see the statistic that kids who were exposed to exclusively abstinence-only education are more likely to engage in oral or anal sex, I think ‘Yay for abstinence-only education!’. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/44 "2012-10-05T20:29:10Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > Good parenting, honesty and proper values are all you can do…like anything with parenting - the rest you hope for the best. > The worst thing to do, is let schools and the government raise your kids when you aren’t around . I, for one, want to get the government away from raising my kids, that’s why I support teacher-led prayer in schools. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/45 "2012-10-05T20:31:30Z")
Guys… who let my grandma in? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/46 "2012-10-05T20:37:12Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > You’re right, the less you talk about sex, the less he’ll think about it. Of course he’ll _think_ about it, but he won’t mull over it. I guarantee you, first day of sex ed, everyone’s embarrassed but as time passes and they find out how easy it is to ‘dodge’ the bullet - you know damn well what they’ll be doing after school. Wouldn’t you? > > I can’t treat pregnancy as an accident like other ‘accidents.’ Because accidents often are a result of mistakes, and I wouldn’t say having a baby is a fmistake. I would rather say that having sex unnecessarily (maybe misuse of the word?) is the mistake. Our sixteen year old kids have no business being sexually active, just like we didn’t - and some of us dodged a bullet too, partially due to parenting, partially due to luck. Having ‘dodged’ it by being on the pill is still dodging it - the difference is the bullet didn’t find the mark… > > For most families, abstinence is simply an act which is supported by a belief system - one which involves enough education about sex to give any teenager plenty they need to know. Where mothers talk about periods and fathers talk about wet dreams. “Son, daughter, if you ever need to talk, we’re here for you…” and etc. > > Maybe that helps shed some light on it for you, maybe you’ll think a bit better of people who don’t want to leave the raising of their kids in the hands of a school and /or the fate of some ‘unwanted’ ‘accidental’ baby. > > In the end, birth control for children is not proactive, it’s simply lazy. Don’t condemn the rest of society’s children because you took the easy approach or as you call it ‘prevention.’ > > P.S. How absurd is it that (put morals aside here…) we’re talking about birth control for children who aren’t legally of age to have sex!!! Perspective..we really need some! This is another great example of conservative ideology trumping reality. Countries with comprehensive sex education have lower rates of pregnancy, and children begin to be sexually active later than they do in the US. If you look at teenage pregnancy rates they are higher in the conservative red states. It’s time to get your head out of Atlas Shrugged and The Bible and look at the real world before you drive the country off a cliff again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/47 "2012-10-05T20:46:59Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Guys… who let my grandma in? > [@fumster](#): > > It’s time to get your head out of Atlas Shrugged and The Bible and look at the real world before you drive the country off a cliff again. You’re in Great Debates here, not The BBQ Pit. Skip the insults. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/48 "2012-10-05T20:57:59Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Which is odd to me. **I have insurance, so perhaps that’s it,** but when I got both my IUDs, I paid an office visit copay. That’s it. $80 (2 office visits for 2 insertions) for 10 years of contraception that totally works, without me having to think about it or do anything, really. This had to be meant tongue-in-cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/49 "2012-10-05T21:21:52Z")
“The United States’ teen pregnancy rate is almost three times that of Germany and France, and over four times that of the Netherlands” “In the United States, the teen abortion rate is twice that of Germany and more than 1.5 times that of the Netherlands.” But how do they achieve these desired outcomes? “Youth have convenient access to free or low-cost contraception through national health insurance. Sex education is not necessarily a separate curriculum and is usually integrated across school subjects and at all grade levels. Educators provide accurate and complete information in response to students’ questions.” [http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/component/content/article/419-adolescent-sexual-health-in-europe-and-the-us](http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/component/content/article/419-adolescent-sexual-health-in-europe-and-the-us) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/50 "2012-10-05T21:25:38Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > “The United States’ teen pregnancy rate is almost three times that of Germany and France, and over four times that of the Netherlands” > “In the United States, the teen abortion rate is twice that of Germany and more than 1.5 times that of the Netherlands.” Smells like freedom! ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/51 "2012-10-05T21:25:54Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > “The United States’ teen pregnancy rate is almost three times that of Germany and France, and over four times that of the Netherlands” > “In the United States, the teen abortion rate is twice that of Germany and more than 1.5 times that of the Netherlands.” > > But how do they achieve these desired outcomes? “Youth have convenient access to free or low-cost contraception through national health insurance. Sex education is not necessarily a separate curriculum and is usually integrated across school subjects and at all grade levels. Educators provide accurate and complete information in response to students’ questions.” > > [http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/component/content/article/419-adolescent-sexual-health-in-europe-and-the-us](http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/component/content/article/419-adolescent-sexual-health-in-europe-and-the-us) Can’t be true or I would have seen it on Fox news. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/52 "2012-10-05T21:40:35Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > It seems that you’re still stuck on the idea that abstinence is a ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ policy. And that it’s barely ever talked about, it’s taboo and the only time it really comes up is when the daughter is going out on a date and the dad starts shouting about ‘if you get pregnant I’ll cut it out of you or kick you out!!’ It’s about that, about lying to the kids so they grow up not knowing how reproduction works, and about teaching them to hate themselves for wanting sex, and hating the people they find attractive for “tempting” them. They also tend to end up as _adults_ who are ignorant about reproduction; adults who hate themselves, and hate or fear whichever gender they find attractive. > [@Voyager](#): > > My dog was a breeder. She was not interested in sex until she came into season. Humans are not designed that way. Sex for us is natural for reproduction and for feeling good. Perhaps we evolved that way for pair bonding. Nonetheless, pretending that kids are not going to do it is crazy, no matter what we teach. Exactly. Most animals want sex only during a specific period of fertility, and are very fertile during that period; IIRC, cattle have an 85% chance of conception per sex act. Humans want sex all year round, aren’t naturally even aware of their own fertile periods, and have a much lower fertility rate even when they are consciously timing things to convenience. We are quite clearly evolved to have sex far more often than necessary for reproduction. Humans aren’t cows or dogs, we’re human. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/53 "2012-10-05T22:02:12Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Despite what certain interested parties keep claiming, there’s no evidence that lack of access to birth control causes anyone to get pregnant in this country. Indeed the rate at which poor women use IUDs is the same as for middle class women, and only a tiny bit lower than the rate for rich women. ([Cite](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_029.pdf), table 11, page 28) In all income groups it’s below 6%, which suggests that the vast majority of women simply choose not to use an IUD. Table E from the same cite shows the reasons women gave for not using birth control when they had an unexpected pregnancy; cost didn’t even make the list. You make it sound like women choose birth control like choosing between different brands of cereal at the store. For one, women on this very message board have posted time and again about how difficult it is to find a Dr. willing to give a woman of childbearing age who hasn’t had children an IUD. So for some women, they aren’t even given a choice of IUD. Second, IUD is expensive. If it’s not covered by insurance most women, regardless of income level, are going to choose something that is, even if it’s less effective. I also believe that there is a general lack of knowledge about IUD so many women may not even know it’s an option. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/54 "2012-10-05T22:45:37Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > You make it sound like women choose birth control like choosing between different brands of cereal at the store. For one, women on this very message board have posted time and again about how difficult it is to find a Dr. willing to give a woman of childbearing age who hasn’t had children an IUD. So for some women, they aren’t even given a choice of IUD. Second, IUD is expensive. If it’s not covered by insurance most women, regardless of income level, are going to choose something that is, even if it’s less effective. I also believe that there is a general lack of knowledge about IUD so many women may not even know it’s an option. Plus doctors old enough might have a bias against IUDs because of the [Dalkon Shield](http://nwhn.org/not-your-mother%E2%80%99s-iud-benefits-and-risks-modern-iuds) problem. I’m sensitive _heh_ to this because after we had our second child my wife basically could not get an IUD in the US, despite it being very effective for her. We were about to go to Copenhagen for one, but I decided to get a vasectomy instead and we went to the much warmer Caribbean. Though IUDs are much safer now, their rep may not have recovered. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/55 "2012-10-05T22:56:06Z")
This again? I swear this pops up every couple of months. You can simply look at readily accessible state level U.S. data to see this really isn’t true, since people don’t use birth control for lack of cost, but rather because they simply don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/56 "2012-10-05T23:37:53Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > This again? I swear this pops up every couple of months. You can simply look at readily accessible state level U.S. data to see this really isn’t true, since people don’t use birth control for lack of cost, but rather because they simply don’t want to. Pay no attention to the study in the OP, it’s not the study you are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/57 "2012-10-06T00:01:00Z")
I don’t think you _really_ want to go down this track. I mean, I’m game for it, though I’ve found that 90% of the stuff I post gets ignored anyway. As it is, the central premise of these threads/studies always starts from two false assumptions-- “women have abortions because they can’t afford birth control” and “women weigh the cost of using birth control against the cost of an abortion”-- when the correct statements are that “women have abortions even though they have easy access to birth control” and “women weigh the cost of birth control against the cost of having a child and the cost of an abortion against the cost of having a child, not the cost of birth control against the cost of an abortion”. Again, there is state level data and multiple studies which back this up, as incredulous as it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/58 "2012-10-06T00:15:19Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I don’t think you _really_ want to go down this track. I mean, I’m game for it, though I’ve found that 90% of the stuff I post gets ignored anyway. Well, in fairness to us board regulars, most people recognize the problem when they reach the 75% level. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/59 "2012-10-06T00:59:55Z")
If I were a rich billionaire, I would set up stands all over the country and give out nothing except over-the-counter contraceptives and information on how to get more. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810/60 "2012-10-06T03:23:41Z")
What would you do if you were a poor billionaire? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-birth-control-lowers-abortion-rate-dramatically/636810.md?page=4)