# Free Iraqis.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 8, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927 "2003-07-08T03:32:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/61 "2003-07-10T10:57:28Z")
I think “anhiliation” (sic)-sorry- is putting it a little strong and loose, and I take exception to the term “inhuman.” I mean, let’s face it; given the size and strength of our arsenal, the US and British forces could have taken Bagdad in a matter of hours instead of weeks if our true intention was to annihilate Iraq.
That said, I would have to agree that our current escapade in Iraq was ill-advised, premature, and poorly thought through. I seem to recall a senior White House operative (Carl Rove?) making a statement last year to the effect that the Administration needed to roll out its “product” after memorial day, and can’t help but think that our whole Iraq stance is just that; “product.” In fact I can’t help but look at President Bush’s sudden acknowledgement of the existence of Africa as new and improved product, designed to rack up brownie points and deflect attention from the growing concern that the administration may have been-ahem- “economical with the truth” as regards its justification for invading.
Stupid? Yes.
Arrogant? Yes.
Inhuman? No… In fact all too human
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### Author:  [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/62 "2003-07-10T15:18:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by bizzwire \*
> \*\*I think “anhiliation” (sic)-sorry- is putting it a little strong and loose, and I take exception to the term “inhuman.” I mean, let’s face it; given the size and strength of our arsenal, the US and British forces could have taken Bagdad in a matter of hours instead of weeks if our true intention was to annihilate Iraq.
>
> That said, I would have to agree that our current escapade in Iraq was ill-advised, premature, and poorly thought through. I seem to recall a senior White House operative (Carl Rove?) making a statement last year to the effect that the Administration needed to roll out its “product” after memorial day, and can’t help but think that our whole Iraq stance is just that; “product.” In fact I can’t help but look at President Bush’s sudden acknowledgement of the existence of Africa as new and improved product, designed to rack up brownie points and deflect attention from the growing concern that the administration may have been-ahem- “economical with the truth” as regards its justification for invading.
>
> Stupid? Yes.
> Arrogant? Yes.
> Inhuman? No… In fact all too human \*\*
( sic ? again? ) you sure got a lot of sics there mate, perhaps you should see someone about it? - so i misspelled a word, not a major crime?,
seeing pictures of kids wasted, blown apart, looks pretty ‘sick’ to me, and certainly not the ideals of the higher humanity you would think we collectively as a species would have aspired to by now?
guess how you regard the degree of destruction depends on wether you are on the recieving end of missiles, wether its your family, streets, houses getting blown apart. wether its you being invaded?
but even one of thier deaths is one to many, inexcusable,
but yes, i agree, to kill or be killed is the natural order of a humanity devoid of mercy first, vengance is not our right to wreak on each other. coz sure enough, all America has done is stir up a hornets nest of vengence.
anyways, glad to see we agree on some points, its not over yet, its just beginning.
so what say you of the matter of world domination by America?, all evidence points to that being the case.
Zanthor
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/63 "2003-07-10T19:30:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \*
> \*\*Actually, I think it’s interesting to see what an actual free Iraqi says. Raed.
>
> http://dear\_raed.blogspot.com/
>
> (Should be up for a Pulitzer, if you ask me)
>
> He’s not thrilled. But generally, the people shooting at americans don’t live near where they shoot, he’s not unhappy that there’s no instagovernment, he’s damn glad there’s no religious government, and he seems to have hope that things will get better, and an understanding that it takes time. \*\*
I made a new thread to post the link to Salam Pax and got attacked because I posted it.
Hm… Sorry, but do people around here actually know what they “want” because when one members makes a topic about an issue he doesn’t “fit in” (this “fit in” issue is on its own something one can open a debate on).
Then comes an other member along and posts just the same.
I reckon that member “fits in” because he is “melted down”? (An other issue that is on its own is good to open a debate on)
Well, you better take notice that I don’t “melt down” nowhere and for nobody in real life and I don’t lick heels nowhere and for nobody or nothing in real life. And since we are in the virtual world, you can count on it that I don’t even consider to have those expressions in my dictionary.
And I don’t follow US elementary school rules where “the group” decides who “fits in” or not and where “the group” plays all kinds of childish games, just like you play here on that idiotic BBQ board.
And thus: No “toastable” poster here.
Get used to it or burn your fingers in attempting to heat the fire.
Ah, almost forgot: To the arrogant poster who is so kind to inform me that members “get points” for correct spelling.
I’m sorry, but do you think English is the only language in the world and everybody _has_ to be born in it?
Care to explain your utterly arrogant remark a bit? Because instead of being educated enough to show the courtesy of appreciating foreigners who show you the courtesy to address themselves to you in your own language, you have the arrogance to “give points” at those people’s grammar and spelling?
I have only one answer to this and shall give it in the Typical English Language Way:
ROFLOL
And I’m very amuzed that you write that I “start to work on your nerves”. You do that to yourself, no?
Why don’t you put me on your “ignore” lst if reading my posts is too much for your nerves?
Aldebaran
---
### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/64 "2003-07-10T19:38:06Z")
Zanthor,
Did you ever take a look at the PNAC website?
Here are some comments on it:
[http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis\_louise\_010603\_pnac.html](http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_010603_pnac.html)
[http://pnac.info/](http://pnac.info/)
---
### Author:  [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/65 "2003-07-10T20:01:07Z")
Sigh…
(Bizz throws in the towel)
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### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/66 "2003-07-10T20:03:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> sure, its easy to dismiss my thoughts as bitter, or anti US, do you think that will shut me up or the rising groundswell of this worlds public opinion, that sees thro the sham of your dirty war for what it is?
a) Who, if anyone, has asked you to shut up? b) Would you please explain why you seem to persisit in believing that every American, or at least every American reading this thread, was solidly behind the invasion of Iraq, despite there being abundant evidence to the contrary at your fingertips?
I mean, have you even bothered to look at any of the other threads on this issue?
> [@](#):
>
> anyways, the issue i raised was, much along the lines of the link and quote i posted, is America ‘hell bent’ on world domination, one world government? controlled by the US, all others nations merely puppets, and this planets resources disposal, esp Iraks oil and water atm, soley at the US’s discretion? with first rights of consumption preferentially the US’s? - sure seems that way.
> none of you addressed that matter, not one.
Well, one reason may be that your question is off-topic in relation to this thread. I’m sure you might have gotten a better response if you had launched a separate thread on the subject. Of course, given the paranoid tone of the above, it’s hard to say whether it would have been taken very seriously.
So at least you’ve laid out your thesis, such as it is. Supporting evidence? Lay that out, and if it seems sensible I’m sure I and others will be happy to discuss it with you.
---
### Author:  [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/67 "2003-07-10T21:09:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by El\_Kabong \*
> \*\*Would you please explain why you seem to persisit in believing that every American, or at least every American reading this thread, was solidly behind the invasion of Iraq, despite there being abundant evidence to the contrary at your fingertips?
> \*\*
Outstanding point. Count me as one who was against it. **Zanthor** and **Aldebaran** , please take a moment to re-read the posts here. What several people are objecting to is _not_ your position that America is in the wrong, they are objecting to your lack of information in the form of cites, stats, or even personal experiences. You just seem to be tossing out unrelated ideas, claims, fictional accounts, and websites that don’t really constitute any sort of debate. Since the forum here is “Great Debates” people expect some sort of debate. What you’ve posted so far just doesn’t meet the standard definition of “debate”.
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### Author:  [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/68 "2003-07-10T21:32:03Z")
[hijack] Excuse me for butting in. Yes, newbie here, but lurker for a long time. I’ve read the straightdope rules. I think Aldebaran is a troll. \* his [?] Dutch is weird. Even if he [?] were to be Flemish, it’s still weird. Ask Coldfire \*
Shouldn’t we ignore trolls?
Once again: Sorry for hijacking. Won’t happen again. [/end hijack]
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/69 "2003-07-10T21:56:46Z")
Gum,
I’m sorry, but where is my Dutch “weird”?
It is for your information not the Dutch Goldfire , being a citizen of the netherlands, speaks. It is the Ducth of Belgium, th
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/70 "2003-07-10T22:12:22Z")
Gum,
I’m sorry, but where is my Dutch “weird”?
It is for your information not the Dutch Goldfire , being a citizen of the Netherlands, speaks. It is the Dutch of Belgium, that means: Flemish. Which I am born into. My mother was Belgian with Flemish as her first language. So I speak the language from in the craddle. What about you. What is your knowledge of the language that you dare to say to someone who speaks the language since birth, that his use of the language is “weird”?
?
?
?
Bent u Nederlander of waar haalt u uw “kennis”?
Ter informatie: Nederlandstalige Belgen beschouwen de uitspraak van Nederlanders als een spraakgebrek. Een Belgish kind met dergelijke uitspraak wordt naar een logopedist gestuurd ter correctie.
Er is ook een enorm verschil in zinsbouw, zinswendingen, woorden uitdrukkingen etc…
Aan de andere kant wordt een Belgische Nederlandstalige film of TV serie ondertiteld indien vertoond in Nederland of op Nederlandse zenders.
Het verschil tussen beide vormen is dermate groot dat in de opleidingen tot Vertaler/Tolk in België de taal zoals gebruikt in Nederland een apart en zeer belangrijke onderdeel van de opleiding vormt.
And as for trolling: so sorry, if I wanted to be a troll, I would be all over this board with silly posts like yours above.
You could consider to apologize.
Salaam. A.
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/71 "2003-07-10T22:14:51Z")
Forgot to ask: Does "Goldfire " mails you to comment on my Dutch or where do you get your “ask Goldfire”?
Maybe you are Goldfire posting under an other name?
Wouldn’t surprize me at all.
That is what I should call “trolling”.
Aldebaran.
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/72 "2003-07-10T22:16:45Z")
Nurse Carmen,
May I suggest you go re-read my posts?
Salaam. A
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/73 "2003-07-10T22:29:14Z")
And also forgot to ask all knowing linguist Gum:
Ever heard of dyslexia.
It doesn’t make the language weird. It does make the writer weird sometimes, since it can have an effect on the use of languages, depending the circumstances in which the one blessed with this exceptional birthgift writes.
I’m blessed with that exceptional birthgift that keeps me awake and alert and thus helps developing my single functioning braincell.
But since I don’t have spell control available here and I’m a bit too lazy to copy and past using Word, posts of mine inevitably become a joy for those who’s hobby it is to attack people on “language”.
I’m always very amused by that.
On the other hand: well meanth corrections are always welcomed.
Although I do have developed some skills to discover my mistakes when re-reading my own attempts to write.
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### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/74 "2003-07-10T22:31:21Z")
Sigh…
(El\_Kabong throws in HIS towel)
---
### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/75 "2003-07-10T22:32:16Z")
And also forgot to ask all knowing linguist Gum:
Ever heard of dyslexia.
It doesn’t make the language weird. It does make the writer weird sometimes, since it can have an effect on the use of languages, depending the circumstances in which the one blessed with this exceptional birthgift writes.
I’m blessed with that exceptional birthgift that keeps me awake and alert and thus helps developing my single functioning braincell.
But since I don’t have spell control available here and I’m a bit too lazy to copy and past using Word, posts of mine inevitably become a joy for those who’s hobby it is to attack people on “language”.
I’m always very amused by that.
On the other hand: well meant corrections are always welcomed.
Although I do have developed some skills to discover my mistakes when re-reading my own attempts to write.
---
### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/76 "2003-07-10T22:37:51Z")
Well, don’t forget to bring those towels to the laundry. You might need them again for the next member who refuses to lick you heels and to kneel down in admiration, sleepless because he can’t get your applaud and approval.
I have the impression some people use message boards as test to see how much “macho-power” they have.
Well… The only thing one can say on that is that everyone is entitled to have a hobby.
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [July 10, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/77 "2003-07-10T22:39:39Z")
In the meantime the machos have hijacked the thread and avoided commenting on the issue.
That is also a very common tactic on message boards.
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### Author:  [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/78 "2003-07-11T00:34:58Z")
Hey, **gum**. Explicitly calling other posters “trolls” is most certainly frowned upon. It’s in the guidelines, somewhere.
Now, on the topic…
The kind of behavior that **Aldebaran** claims is occuring is horriffic and should be condemned unequivocally.
I, however, do not believe that this kind of activity is widespread or encouraged by the Coalition.
I also would not be entirely surprised if one or two soldiers were sick enough to do such things. There are, after all, too many folks over there for there not to be a few bad ones.
I hope I saved this debate. You can pick up your towels now.
---
### Author:  [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/79 "2003-07-11T07:29:26Z")
First off, I question the content of the article mainly because of the rather blatant errors in the article (Yeah, especially the “daisy cutter” one. In many more ways than just one…).
However… Aldebaran, you might want to consider that, most likely, a little more than half of this board are/were against the Iraq war (Myself included). There are frequent threads in Great Debates and the Pit about various bad things involving the war. Many are american, many are not american. _Everyone_ here knows that civilians died in the fighting. Many have found sincere problems with some things that have happened there. However, they don’t go as berserker as you do. Your posts rant and ramble on, accusing all americans of supporting what’s happened. You attack the people who are against the whole war. On top of that, your retoric is so extreme that the only comment I can think of is “stay off my side.” You do more harm to your possition than good, encouraging even the people that would _normally_ be on your side to argue _against_ you. And then, when people bring up good points, you brush them off and accuse them of supporting murder, torture, and genocide. It’s like you’re seeing everything as black or white; either you’re 100% for your possition, or 100% against. But that’s not true. Just because someone argues that some act isn’t torture, or that a stray bomb killing civilians isn’t murder, does _not_ mean they think it’s a _good_ thing. I suggest you learn to understand this concept.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-iraqis/186927/80 "2003-07-11T16:53:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \*
> \*\*I reckon that member “fits in” because he is “melted down”? (An other issue that is on its own is good to open a debate on)
> \*\*
In this context, “meltdown” refers to where a soon-to-be-banned member loses emotional control and begins posting wildly.
I hope this makes it clear to you.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \*
> \*\*
> Well, you better take notice that I don’t “melt down” nowhere and for nobody in real life and I don’t lick heels nowhere and for nobody or nothing in real life. And since we are in the virtual world, you can count on it that I don’t even consider to have those expressions in my dictionary.
> And I don’t follow US elementary school rules where “the group” decides who “fits in” or not and where “the group” plays all kinds of childish games, just like you play here on that idiotic BBQ board.
> And thus: No “toastable” poster here.
> Get used to it or burn your fingers in attempting to heat the fire.
> \*\*
Yes, I see that you are mastering the concept of “meltdown” already.
This sort of defiant bravado is not **exactly** the same as walking up to the meanest streetfighter in town with a sign saying “KICK ME HARD” taped to your crotch, but it is close.
Methinks perhaps just a little attitude adjustment is in order here. Either that, or see the previous definition of “meltdown”.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \*
> \*\*Ah, almost forgot: To the arrogant poster who is so kind to inform me that members “get points” for correct spelling.
> I’m sorry, but do you think English is the only language in the world and everybody _has_ to be born in it?
> Care to explain your utterly arrogant remark a bit? Because instead of being educated enough to show the courtesy of appreciating foreigners who show you the courtesy to address themselves to you in your own language, you have the arrogance to “give points” at those people’s grammar and spelling?
> I have only one answer to this and shall give it in the Typical English Language Way:
>
> ROFLOL
>
> And I’m very amuzed that you write that I “start to work on your nerves”. You do that to yourself, no?
> Why don’t you put me on your “ignore” lst if reading my posts is too much for your nerves?
>
> Aldebaran \*\*
Well, if you had actually read what I posted, you would have seen that I said that we would be willing to cut you some slack (that is, refrain from attacking you, and assume an attitude of good will on your part) if we felt you were genuinely communicating rather than simply ranting.
Also notice that I said “if”.
It is a violation of SDMB rules to inform another poster that you are putting him on your ignore list. So I wouldn’t do that.
Incidentally, it is more commonly expressed as ROFLMAO. YMMV.
See also STFU, and DNFTT.
My crystal ball sees a rather short and unhappy stay for you on the SDMB. You may want to consider starting work on your “You can’t handle the truth, you mindless clones!” post sooner rather than later.
Regards,
Shodan
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