# Free Presbyterians in Northern Ireland (and elsewhere) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 14, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371 "2006-03-14T22:15:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/1 "2006-03-14T22:15:15Z")
I found [website](http://www.freepres.org) run by the Free Presbyterians, and I have to say some of these guys sound downright scary. Scary in the sense that people must be going to listen to these men preach, and in considerable numbers, because they seem to have congregations all over the UK and abroad. I thought that nonsense about the wine at Cana being grape juice was limited to some hardlined American sects. What is the deal with this denomination, and are they really spreading as fast as their relatively well-put-together website would lead one to believe? Do they gather a lot of strength in Northern Ireland just by being an alternative to Catholics? IIRC there is a prominent MP from there named Ian Paisley who belongs to the church. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/2 "2006-03-14T22:23:46Z")
Ian Paisley is what Fred Phelps would be if he had a following larger than his own inbred little clan. And yes, that IS scary… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/3 "2006-03-14T22:28:13Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Do they gather a lot of strength in Northern Ireland just by being an alternative to Catholics? Can’t answer your other questions, but in NI, religion seems to be fairly entrenched - people don’t seem to convert too readily. There are other protestant denominations there too, but this seems to be the dominant. Census figures are difficult to come by, however, as many Republicans refuse to participate in them. BTW Paisley is not just a prominent MP, but the First Minister of Northern Ireland, as well as a sitting UK MP and a Member of the European Parliament (the most democratically-gained titles of any UK politician, according to the BBC the other day). Anecdotally, he is meant to be a fantastic local MP, with a lot of time for his constituents regardless of their religious persuasion. On the other hand, he’s virulently homophobic, and once called Pope Jean Paul II the Antichrist. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/4 "2006-03-14T22:31:04Z")
Sorry, came over all French there for a minute. I meant John Paul (and George and Ringo). ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/5 "2006-03-14T23:35:41Z")
Oh they’re on the weird loony fringe of the fundamental christian right. You know Jack Chick? Well, they share his views (especially the ones about a literal biblical creation and the pope being the Anti-Christ). They’re not what you would call easy-going, fun-loving people. I have to say, their religion may give them stability and security, but it doesn’t seem to bring them much joy and happiness, and as for being filled with the love of Christ and their fellow men…not so much. I went to school with a girl from a Free P family. She had 8 siblings (they’re not too keen on contraception), and the women are supposed to wear long skirts and head coverings and not work outside the home. They take certain bits of the bible really seriously. Like the bit about not wearing clothes of the other gender. This poor girl had to do an outward bound course, complete with aerial wire slide, in a long skirt…on a windy day. We tried to point out that wearing tracksuit trousers under the skirt would have been more modest than having her panties on show, but apparently trousers were unacceptable because they were “male garments”. :rolleyes: They’re not big on dancing, drinking and doing anything on Sundays except praying and going to church. I mean _anything_- this girl wasn’t allowed to study, play, read, watch TV, go for a walk, do household chores…nothing except church, Bible and prayer on a Sunday. The problem with Free P’s is that everyone over 18 is 100% garaunteed to turn up and vote. So a small yet vocal minority can win outright over the apathetic, less extreme majority. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/6 "2006-03-14T23:41:05Z")
As the OP also asked about ‘elsewhere’, there’s a good article [here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,818836,00.html) regarding Presbyterians in remote Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/7 "2006-03-14T23:42:40Z")
Oh yes, and at some point they confused a Jewish guy from Roman Palestine, with a white British guy who desperately wants Northern Ireland to stay part of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/8 "2006-03-14T23:50:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Ian Paisley is what Fred Phelps would be if he had a following larger than his own inbred little clan. And yes, that IS scary… Ian Paisley was born in 1926, Fred Phelps in 1929, and they both attended Bob Jones Jr. University. Although my Wiki-fu has been unable to verify, it’s even possible that the two have met. They are two heads of the same beast in the least. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/9 "2006-03-15T00:54:38Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Ian Paisley was born in 1926, Fred Phelps in 1929, and they both attended Bob Jones Jr. University. Although my Wiki-fu has been unable to verify, it’s even possible that the two have met. They are two heads of the same beast in the least. So far as I know Paisley didn’t attend Bob Jones University. He has a D.D. degree from BJU, but it’s an honorary degree. I don’t believe he ever studied there. Paisley’s formal theological education was at bible colleges in Wales and Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/10 "2006-03-15T14:30:37Z")
FTR the FPs should not be confused with the mainline liberal Presbyterian sect in America (and maybe elsewhere, too). ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/11 "2006-03-15T15:59:17Z")
Damn right, **Spectre of Pithecanthropus**. I’m a Northern Irish Presbyterian, and my religious beliefs and practice have about as much in common with Ian Paisley’s as his have with Mother Theresa’s. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/12 "2006-03-15T18:07:57Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > So far as I know Paisley didn’t attend Bob Jones University. He has a D.D. degree from BJU, but it’s an honorary degree. I don’t believe he ever studied there. Paisley’s formal theological education was at bible colleges in Wales and Northern Ireland. Damn, you’re right. So much for my conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![infodisiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/76d3ee/32.png) [@infodisiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infodisiac)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/13 "2006-03-15T22:54:30Z")
Bit of a hijack but did anyone see the Jon Ronson show on Mr. Paisley? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/14 "2006-03-16T17:51:32Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > FTR the FPs should not be confused with the mainline liberal Presbyterian sect in America (and maybe elsewhere, too). That’s absolutely true. I was raised an American Presbyterian, and we weren’t Free. We were Expensive Presbyterians. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-presbyterians-in-northern-ireland-and-elsewhere/348371/15 "2006-03-17T13:34:03Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > So far as I know Paisley didn’t attend Bob Jones University. He has a D.D. degree from BJU, but it’s an honorary degree. I don’t believe he ever studied there. Paisley’s formal theological education was at bible colleges in Wales and Northern Ireland. Hmmm - I too was under the impression he had studied in the US, but you are correct, it seems he didn’t. However > [@answers.com](#): > > Paisley’s use of the title ‘Dr.’ derives from an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree awarded by an unaccredited Christian college called Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina. The right-wing segregationist Bob Jones, Jr. was a close personal friend and a co-leader with Ian Paisley in the international Fundamentalist movement. If this is correct, then is seems you really can tell a lot about someone from the friends they keep.