# Free speech and abortion? Not so much at NKU. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191 "2006-04-18T18:17:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/1 "2006-04-18T18:17:32Z")
[Link](http://media.www.thenortherner.com/media/storage/paper527/news/2006/04/12/News/Right.To.Life.Group.To.Press.Charges.Against.Protestors-1851538.shtml?sourcedomain=www.thenortherner.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com) > [@](#): > > Northern Kentucky University President James Votruba has confirmed that Dr. Sally Jacobsen said that she encouraged students to practice their freedom of speech by pulling down the crosses during her British Literature class, which meets on Wednesday evenings. Link above has lovely photo of Dr. Jacobsen exercising her “freedom of speech”. Vandalism! It’s the new free speech, yo… ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/2 "2006-04-18T18:19:33Z")
Bad link. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/3 "2006-04-18T18:24:49Z")
Dr. Jacobsen was set to retire soon. NKU has hastened that process along. She won’t ever teach another student again. A good outcome for everyone concerned, I say. Not overly punitive, yet it sends a message that this sort of thing won’t be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/4 "2006-04-18T18:30:01Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] Bad link. [/QUOTE] Hmmm..lemme try again huge URL [http://media.www.thenortherner.com/media/storage/paper527/news/2006/04/12/News/Right.To.Life.Group.To.Press.Charges.Against.Protestors-1851538.shtml?sourcedomain=www.thenortherner.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com](http://media.www.thenortherner.com/media/storage/paper527/news/2006/04/12/News/Right.To.Life.Group.To.Press.Charges.Against.Protestors-1851538.shtml?sourcedomain=www.thenortherner.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com) ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/5 "2006-04-18T19:33:26Z")
Well, you know my higher education bias, but I take want to point out, to anyone who doesn’t read the link, that “not so much at NKU” refers to the fact that this is where this happened–period. It doesn’t refer to a campus policy or NKU-supported stance. It looks like the campus police are taking the damage to the display quite seriously. The President has also spoken out. Dr. Jacobsen is the one who appears to have a limited interpretation of free speech, not NKU. Just so we’re clear! ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/6 "2006-04-18T19:52:34Z")
It was clearly wrong for Dr. Jacobsen and those students to destroy the “Cemetary of Innocents.”\* It would have been much more effective to prevent the Northern Right-to-Lifers from erecting it, perhaps by holding signs, screaming, and attempting to physically block their access to the plaza.\*\* \*Not saracasm. \*\*Not entirely sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/7 "2006-04-18T19:57:49Z")
Also important to note: the campus pro-choice group, who provided the inspiration for the right-to-lifers to stage their protest, has condemned the vandalism: > [@](#): > > In a letter to The Northerner, signed by Nancy Slonneger Hancock, a member of The Educators for Reproductive Freedom, Hancock said that the group “neither knew about nor participated in this act of vandalism, and we most certainly do not condone it.” Hancock said that the group sees the cross display as “protected free speech, no matter how strongly we may disagree with the message. It is of the utmost importance that we all respect each others’ free speech rights.” [From **beagledave’s** link] I know a handful of NKU students who are half-planning putting up 400 coathangers as a counter-counter-protest, which I think would be far more effective than the vandalism. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/8 "2006-04-18T20:05:11Z")
One more thing: Everybody I’ve talked to (meaning, like, three people) who has ever had one of Jacobsen’s classes says she’s basically a caricature of a nutty liberal professor, to the extent that’s it’s actually kind of embarassing. And these people are pretty much bomb-throwing radicals. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/9 "2006-04-18T20:25:48Z")
I guess I would like more information. If the pro-life group had the right to put them up, did the pro-choice group have the right to take them down? Was there a permit involved, or was this simply campus activism? I do think it was stupid to damage the crosses. That is destruction of property. But I don’t see an issue with one group putting them up as their free speech and one group taking them down as free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/10 "2006-04-18T20:45:27Z")
I find those crosses absolutely disgustingly glurgy and maudlin, but dammit, I wouldn’t take them down. I’d set up a display of my own-a cemetary of coat hangers. Tit for tat and all that. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/11 "2006-04-18T20:48:59Z")
Oh Guin. That’s good. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/12 "2006-04-18T20:50:09Z")
I certainly hope the vandals are held accountable. Poking 400 holes in a campud lawn is pretty extensive vandalism, so I hope those anti-choicers are prepared to accept the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/13 "2006-04-18T20:53:00Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I find those crosses absolutely disgustingly glurgy and maudlin, but dammit, I wouldn’t take them down. I’d set up a display of my own-a cemetary of coat hangers. Tit for tat and all that. [/QUOTE] Update: Somebody apparently actually did it, but they (stupidly) removed the replacement crosses in order to use the same space. They should have put the hangers _right next_ to the crosses, but hey, it’s NKU… whaddaya want? Anyway, campus security cleared them out by noon today. Dunno if the crosses are back up. Again. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/14 "2006-04-18T20:57:01Z")
_In a letter to The Northerner, signed by Nancy Slonneger Hancock, a member of The Educators for Reproductive Freedom, Hancock said that the group “neither knew about nor participated in this act of vandalism, and we most certainly do not condone it.” Hancock said that the group sees the cross display as “protected free speech, no matter how strongly we may disagree with the message. It is of the utmost importance that we all respect each others’ free speech rights.”_ Respect for the rights of others. Something for all parties involved in this particular dust-up to consider. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/15 "2006-04-18T20:58:49Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] I guess I would like more information. If the pro-life group had the right to put them up, did the pro-choice group have the right to take them down? Was there a permit involved, or was this simply campus activism? I do think it was stupid to damage the crosses. That is destruction of property. But I don’t see an issue with one group putting them up as their free speech and one group taking them down as free speech. [/QUOTE] I semi-agree here. I don’t think erecting a faux cemetary, or anything for that matter, is appropoiate use of campus space. If it is in a public space without appropiate permission then its fair game imho. If they had permission then it was wrong to tear it down. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/16 "2006-04-18T21:13:30Z")
[QUOTE=treis] I semi-agree here. I don’t think erecting a faux cemetary, or anything for that matter, is appropoiate use of campus space. If it is in a public space without appropiate permission then its fair game imho. If they had permission then it was wrong to tear it down. [/QUOTE] No, it’s wrong, unless the people taking it down owned the property. If you think no permit was obtained, the proper response is to report the act to campus security and have them deal with it. I doubt you’d condone vigilantyism against a viewpoint with which you agree. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/17 "2006-04-18T21:31:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No, it’s wrong, unless the people taking it down owned the property. [/QUOTE] Bullshit. It’s a commentary, just like putting them up. Free speech. Just because they own the property, doesn’t mean they dictate how they are displayed. As long as their property isn’t damaged. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/18 "2006-04-18T21:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No, it’s wrong, unless the people taking it down owned the property. If you think no permit was obtained, the proper response is to report the act to campus security and have them deal with it. I doubt you’d condone vigilantyism against a viewpoint with which you agree. [/QUOTE] It’s vigilanteism to pick up litter? If I saw 400 pamphlets that this group had strewn across the lawn, intentionally or otherwise, and decided to pick them up and throw them away, I’d be engaged in inappropriate vigilanteism? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/19 "2006-04-18T21:42:05Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No, it’s wrong, unless the people taking it down owned the property. If you think no permit was obtained, the proper response is to report the act to campus security and have them deal with it. I doubt you’d condone vigilantyism against a viewpoint with which you agree. [/QUOTE] So you’re calling me a hypocrite eh? ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191/20 "2006-04-18T21:45:47Z")
I have two siblings with degrees from NKU, and one who’s only about nine hours away\*. This made me laugh. NKU could possibly be the most ugly campus in the continental United States. As ugly as a yard full of crosses would be, I’d almost have to say it’d be an improvement. \*The doofus has been temporarily derailed through impregnation by her thirty year old Sengalese immigrant boyfriend. Fun Fact. It’s all I can do not to special order diapers with Mohommed’s head pictured on them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-and-abortion-not-so-much-at-nku/353191.md?page=2)