Free Speech Buffer Zones

[Frylock]

@panache45

Are you seriously implying that, once upon a time, people had the right to commit murder, but some people abused that right, so the government stepped in and made all murder illegal?

I don’t intend to take a side in your conversation here, but I do have a question: Do you think there’s always been a set of rules determining when it’s okay and not okay to kill?

If not, then what’s so amazing about the idea that there may have been a time when some such set of rules was literally invented?

(I don’t know that this did happen, I’m just saying the notion doesn’t seem so incredible to me as it does to you.)

-FrL-

[Mr2001]

@Frylock

It’s never really seemed to me that the audience of a protest is the person or group being protested against.

Do you think that’s incorrect though?

I think they’re part of the audience, and so are people who might be coming to visit them or attend one of their events, people who might be passing by and wonder what’s going on at the event, and any media that might be covering the event. If you’re protesting a business because you don’t like some policy of theirs, you want to get the attention of the people working there (who have the power to change the policy), as well as the customers who keep them in business.

If you only care about getting your message across to the general public, not anyone in particular, then you might as well sit at home and write a letter to the editor.

Anyway, I didn’t say you can’t do it where they can hear you. So your question is off the mark.

You wrote this in your OP: “So, for example, if a protest of a person’s funeral can be heard by the ones attending it, then it should not be allowed.”

So, to recapitulate and to clarify: I’m not saying no one should ever feel disturbed by a protest against them. I am saying there are certain activities which should be protected from direct and immediate disturbance. What are those certain activities? I don’t quite know yet. Certainly almost any funeral would count.

What makes these ceremonies so special? Why is it OK to protest at a business or a football game, for example, but not a funeral, considering that the business owner and the football team don’t want to be disturbed any more than the funeral attendees do?

[Terrifel]

@Frylock

Now wait a minute.

A guy is blaring his political manifesto out his porch, right next door to you. Its 3AM. You can’t sleep.

And you just think, “Ah well, it is his right.” And what, read a book til he goes away?

Do you promise me this is how you would react, or at least, think you should react?

No indeed; I’ve never had that specific situation crop up, but I have had neighbors engage in excessively loud music appreciation at 3 AM or thereabouts. I’ve never had to call the police on them; generally a terse request is sufficient. Then too, I’m twisted enough that I might be genuinely interested in a bullhorn-wielding manifesto-spewer’s message (I once listened for a couple hours to a parking-lot oracle’s warnings of sodium-powered bloodstream demons from the Hollow Earth) but I wouldn’t fault others for calling the cops either.

The point of my observation was to question the stated societal justification for civil behavior: " Society sometimes requires that we act in a civil manner, so that we all can enjoy a peaceful and enjoyable life." Rather, society requires that we act in a civil manner so that others can enjoy a peaceful etc. It’s already a given that we* all * aren’t enjoying it, because at least one person has written a manifesto to try and change it. Of course it’s much easier to ignore the existence of that person after they’ve been hauled off by the police.

This is not to say that certain means of nonviolent expression shouldn’t be limited; only that I feel it’s a dicey situation for an ostensibly free society to pass judgement on, and that as a rule of thumb it’s probably better to err on the side of permissiveness.

To answer your question, go to a street corner in a crowded place, and start reading it out. (Have a permit if required, of course. ) Its very likely no one will be disturbed. This is because it has become a “meme” of sorts that that’s the right time and place for such activity.

Seriously? A street corner in a crowded place… Hmmm. I’ve noticed that cemeteries often have street corners right near the gates, and they’re generally most crowded during funerals. So this should be an ideal spot to publicly communicate a message, yes?

[Frylock]

@Terrifel

This is not to say that certain means of nonviolent expression shouldn’t be limited; only that I feel it’s a dicey situation for an ostensibly free society to pass judgement on, and that as a rule of thumb it’s probably better to err on the side of permissiveness.

Quite right.

Seriously? A street corner in a crowded place… Hmmm. I’ve noticed that cemeteries often have street corners right near the gates, and they’re generally most crowded during funerals. So this should be an ideal spot to publicly communicate a message, yes?

The answer I have for your comment here is such an obvious (and obviously right) one I feel like it would be condescending to even type it out. So I won’t. Well shit, I guess that was kind of a condescending way to say that, wasn’t it? I apologize.

-FrL-

[kanicbird]

@panache45

Are you seriously implying that, once upon a time, people had the right to commit murder, but some people abused that right, so the government stepped in and made all murder illegal?

It’s not totally ot of the question. Going back to cave man days, you didn’t like your neighbor for whatever reason (eating your yak, sleeping with your wife/daughter/goat), I could see how a natural right to revenge could have existed, and murder could be acceptable.

This is the most astounding statement I’ve heard in a long time, even for you, kanicbird.

Hey I try

But someone should not be criminally responsible for excercising a written right IMHO (in practice this doesn’t always hold), civially is a different matter, but it’s excersise does bring to light a aspect to that right that may be better regulated.

[Terrifel]

@Frylock

The answer I have for your comment here is such an obvious (and obviously right) one I feel like it would be condescending to even type it out. So I won’t. Well shit, I guess that was kind of a condescending way to say that, wasn’t it? I apologize.

-FrL-

Condescend away, please. I try not to kid myself that I’m incapable of overlooking obviously right answers.

[Frylock]

@Terrifel

Condescend away, please. I try not to kid myself that I’m incapable of overlooking obviously right answers.

Well…

I said it’s sort of a “meme” that crowded street corners in the middle of the day are a place where a person might shout his manifesto at a crowd, and said crowd will not feel bothered and will just go about its business, or, if it’s got a few spare moments, maybe even listen in for a while at least as entertainment.

You said “really, even a crowded street corner next to an ongoing funeral, then, right?”

And the obvious answer is, “No, I wasn’t talking about crowde street corners next to ongoing funerals.”

-FrL-