# Free Speech vs Schools **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613 "2009-02-05T20:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/41 "2009-02-06T20:55:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So what if they don’t like her saying in her blog that she supports gay marriage? Or opposes it? Or thinks that marijuana use should be legalized? Or that interracial marriage should be banned? That’s a legit question. I think **Manda Jo** expressed my on thoughts, although clearly from a position of knowledge as opposed to my own “gut feel”. It seems like it depends on the purpose of the student office. I assumed (without any real knowledge) that a student officer was representing the school in some way. If the student is representing the school or admin in any way then they should be able to set the rules regarding what is ok. Given that this is a voluntary thing I think it makes sense for them to have some criteria. And for the record, I am a strong believer on free speech. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/42 "2009-02-06T23:01:09Z")
What is this world coming to anyways? When I was in school, if I had called the administration “douchebags” I would have had to worry about the wrath of my parents instead of the school. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/43 "2009-02-07T02:05:47Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > From the article: “A state lawmaker is proposing legislation that would bar schools from punishing students for their electronic insults, even if they write them on class computers during school hours.” I’d hope that was wrong. If it was written on school time and was bullying another child, then they should certainly be able to sort that out. If it’s not written on school time, I’d have to admit that there’s probably not a whole lot the school can do about it technically in terms of punishment, but they can, at least, do all the other things they should do once they know that bullying is happening. > [@jtgain](#): > > Since they aren’t fining, jailing, or otherwise using the police power of the state to curtail her speech, I don’t see the first amendment violation. > > This is no different than getting in trouble at work for calling the boss a douchebag.. See, I don’t think that someone posting on a private blog, especally one not naming their workplace, should get into trouble for calling their bosses such mild names. Everyone should be free to call their bosses douchebags, or whatever (as long as it’s not something with legal repercussions - like saying that they’re all paedophiles). People sometimes need to rant. Kids - in their free time - saying their teachers are douchebags? Heavens! Whatever next! Anarchy! Anarchy, I tell you! We never did that in our day! Out of school, we all gathered round to write sonnets about the virtues of our educators! I don’t know if it’s a first amendment issue either. But the school certainly does seem to be living up to what this student called them. > [@even\_sven](#): > > I’m a teacher and I fully believe that if you treat students like children and criminals, you will get students who act like children and criminals. > > We’ve been squeezing the rules ever tighter and tighter (like the “no groups” rule, or my old school’s awesome “Nothing can be written on your backpack” rule.) and as far as I can tell we’ve come nowhere near ending hooliganism in our schools. You can’t plan for every contingency. You can’t fence a student into submission. > > We need to have high expectations of our students, and give them a way to live up to them. And this means we need to let them make choices so that they learn how to be responsible for their choices. Of course it’s harder. Some kids will make some bad choices. But in the end it teaches them how to be responsible to themselves, not responsible to a book of rules. > > Anyway, it’s her time, her computer and her website. If she wants to run for student body president on the platform of “admin is all douchebags”, that is her business. Part of letting students vote is letting their vote count. Otherwise, whats the point? I’m a teacher too - teaching 11-18 year olds (and adults in a different job). I also know that such stricture is just going to make the kids fight harder. My experience has pretty much always shown that treating the student like a worthwhile person makes them more likely to act like a worthwhile person. However, sometimes they like being treated like children in some respects (and as an adult in others - it’s a somewhat tricky balance); sometimes being allowed to be a child is what they’ve been lacking up till now. Treating them like children doesn’t mean you disallow them from expressing their opinions all the time, though. > [@jtgain](#): > > What is this world coming to anyways? When I was in school, if I had called the administration “douchebags” I would have had to worry about the wrath of my parents instead of the school. Unless the school were such douchebags that they’d make a huge deal out of you using such a term (which is really, really mild) in your own free time. Then your parents should have backed you up. The kid is not always right, but neither is the school. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/44 "2009-02-07T02:48:27Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > I’d hope that was wrong. If it was written on school time and was bullying another child, then they should certainly be able to sort that out. > > If it’s not written on school time, I’d have to admit that there’s probably not a whole lot the school can do about it technically in terms of punishment, but they can, at least, do all the other things they should do once they know that bullying is happening. This (imo) is a non-issue, it’s not that hard to “accidentally” have a monitor show up at the right time, that’s how they usually solve reported bullying anyway. The don’t just take the kid to the office, because then he knows they told, they just “happen to” show up when it’s happening. Then they can dish out repercussions. The rest of your post I’m torn on. I agree they overreacted, but the Student Government has a relatively fair amount of power (approximately as much as the grounds committee in my school at least, they can definitely change stuff and organize stuff more than some bodies), the Principal and board have veto power, but if they exercise it too much it always leads to trouble, therefore if you have non-constructive insults (even minor) being thrown around it can lead to problems if the members of the student government start doing stuff to undermine the administration. On the other hand it was one insult, what if it was just a bad day? I feel sorry for this kid, this being blown up into a news story could possibly hurt college chances (“we don’t want a mouthy rebellious kid that got kicked out of her student government here!”), even if just a little bit, and even if this decision is reversed and she can put it on her applications. So yes, they were douches about it, and it was a hasty, bad decision. At the same time if a kid gets TOO mouthy online or anywhere removing them from the student government can and should be a valid option because of the needless friction it can cause. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/45 "2009-02-07T03:04:13Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Unless the school were such douchebags that they’d make a huge deal out of you using such a term (which is really, really mild) in your own free time. Then your parents should have backed you up. The kid is not always right, but neither is the school. We must have grown up on different planets. Granted, there was no internet when I was in school, so I’m not sure what an apt comparison would be. Let’s say I took out an ad in the local (not school) newspaper saying that the principal was a douchebag (mild as it is, I’m not sure a newspaper would print that, anyhoo) I can say with certainty that when my parents found out about it, my life would have been over, and I definitely wouldn’t have been a favorite student at school. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/46 "2009-02-07T06:10:53Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > We must have grown up on different planets. Granted, there was no internet when I was in school, so I’m not sure what an apt comparison would be. Let’s say I took out an ad in the local (not school) newspaper saying that the principal was a douchebag (mild as it is, I’m not sure a newspaper would print that, anyhoo) > > I can say with certainty that when my parents found out about it, my life would have been over, and I definitely wouldn’t have been a favorite student at school. Comparisons are difficult because blogs and so on make these comments live for much longer than they would do if you’d said them out loud. But, for the sake of argument, it would be like you said douchebags, were overheard by several people, got reported and it was definite you said it. But some schools _are_ badly run. Kids should have a right to say that. Most schools schools aren’t that badly run, but kids should be able to vent occasionally. They’re teenagers; how many of them, do you bet, have spent their entire high school careers without calling the school in general or one of their teachers by a much stronger term than ‘douchebags’? It doesn’t mean much. If you’ve had a bad day at work, and you called your bosses douchebags on your own blog (I hate retyping that word - it’s so old-fashioned!) would you expect to be in trouble for it? Maybe you would, I don’t know, but you shouldn’t be. Perhaps you should refrain from using the company name if it’s a public post, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/47 "2009-02-09T21:58:08Z")
Her first amendment rights were not violated…right? She didn’t have to take down her blog, right? It’s just someone she insulted felt…insulted and reacted. As someone said…just like my boss would if he say I was calling him a douchebag in my blog. This strikes a chord with me…Over my management career I have supervised…well…roughly 80 different people at different times. Many have told me I’m a great boss. 4 of them didn’t seem to like me. They expressed their dislike in different ways. They expressed their views to others and it got back to me. Did I run out and try to censor them? Hell no! However, they weren’t around very long. However, they seem puzzled when I took it negatively. One even asked me why I was canning her ass and I told her the truth…that her work was similar to her coworkers but that it was obvious she didn’t like me as a boss AND expressed that opinion to others around her. So, I was letting her go. She was dumbfounded and said something like I shouldn’t be taking that into consideration. Why not!? You insult someone…or you don’t like someone…don’t be surprised when they react. The school admin didn’t make her take down her words…they just don’t want her representing the school. They may have good or bad reasons for this…but comeon - she insulted them and they reacted. Lesson learned on her part. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/48 "2009-02-09T22:06:24Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Her first amendment rights were not violated…right? She didn’t have to take down her blog, right? It’s just someone she insulted felt…insulted and reacted. Bullshit. An agent of the government punished her for something she wrote. If the _Wall Street Journal_ issues a devastating critique of President Obama’s stimulus plan, and he reacts by having the IRS audit their books and do other things to make their life miserable, he is violating their First Amendment rights no less than if he sent in thugs to pulp all the copies of the paper and rough up the staff. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/49 "2009-02-09T22:26:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Bullshit. An agent of the government punished her for something she wrote. > > If the _Wall Street Journal_ issues a devastating critique of President Obama’s stimulus plan, and he reacts by having the IRS audit their books and do other things to make their life miserable, he is violating their First Amendment rights no less than if he sent in thugs to pulp all the copies of the paper and rough up the staff. But what if he simply refuses to grant them interviews for a time? She isn’t being punished. They just don’t want her representing the school. I wouldn’t either–would you trust her to escort visitors around and or to sit on panels as the school’s proxy? Would you want her to be interviewed as the school’s rep by the media? That’s the sort of stuff class officers do, and it’s directly applicable to her behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/50 "2009-02-09T22:52:43Z")
[A related circumstance:](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/us/08cyberbully.html) > [@](#): > > Katherine Evans said she was frustrated with her English teacher for ignoring her pleas for help with assignments and a brusque reproach when she missed class to attend a school blood drive. > > So Ms. Evans, who was then a high school senior and honor student, logged onto the networking site Facebook and wrote a rant against the teacher, Sarah Phelps. > > “To those select students who have had the displeasure of having Ms. Sarah Phelps, or simply knowing her and her insane antics: Here is the place to express your feelings of hatred,” she wrote. … > > … two months after her online venting, Ms. Evans was called into the principal’s office and was told she was being suspended for “cyberbullying,” a blemish on her record that she said she feared could keep her from getting into graduate schools or landing her dream job. … She is suing the principal of her school, Peter Bayer, for ordering her suspension. She is asking for no monetary compensation beyond her legal fees, said her lawyer, Matthew Bavaro, and she simply wants to have the suspension removed from her record. … Complaining about a teacher outside of school on Facebook resulted in a suspension from school. Okay, I can understand if the student had e-mailed the teacher and threatened or even implied a threat to her. Or even made noises about harming her on a blog. But just saying that you hate a teacher outside of school results in a suspension? Boy, my kids make fun of their teachers in ways much worse than that! (Mind you this kid does seem like a bit of a gunner - in college and worried that her High School record will follow her and handicap her graduate school or career opportunities? But the principal remains.) ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/51 "2009-02-09T23:22:50Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > She isn’t being punished. They just don’t want her representing the school. Which is a negative action against her as a direct result of her speech. By what definition is that anything other than a punishment? And since when does a _student_ council member represent the _school_? They’re not little PR ambassadors for the school, or they shouldn’t be, they should be representatives of the students. And if the students agree with this young woman that on occasion, the administration and/or faculty of this school are a bunch of douchebags, then it should be their choice to be represented by someone who shares their perspective. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/52 "2009-02-10T00:41:31Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Which is a negative action against her as a direct result of her speech. By what definition is that anything other than a punishment? > > And since when does a _student_ council member represent the _school_? They’re not little PR ambassadors for the school, or they shouldn’t be, they should be representatives of the students. And if the students agree with this young woman that on occasion, the administration and/or faculty of this school are a bunch of douchebags, then it should be their choice to be represented by someone who shares their perspective. Removing a privilege is not the same as a punishment. At some schools, this is true. At others (including the one I teach at), they are strictly figureheads. School cultures vary enormously. As I’ve said from the beginning, whether or not I think this is appropriate depends on the culture of the school. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/53 "2009-02-10T00:45:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [A related circumstance:](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/us/08cyberbully.html) > Complaining about a teacher outside of school on Facebook resulted in a suspension from school. Okay, I can understand if the student had e-mailed the teacher and threatened or even implied a threat to her. Or even made noises about harming her on a blog. But just saying that you hate a teacher outside of school results in a suspension? Boy, my kids make fun of their teachers in ways much worse than that! (Mind you this kid does seem like a bit of a gunner - in college and worried that her High School record will follow her and handicap her graduate school or career opportunities? But the principal remains.) Everyone seems to be wildly overreacting in this situation, but I do think kids need to learn that saying something on the internet is not the same as saying it in private. For example, I wouldn’t write a letter of recommendation for a student who wrote such a thing on facebook about any teacher–but if I happened to somehow hear that they had said such a thing in private, it wouldn’t faze me at all. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/54 "2009-02-10T01:02:44Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > News flash: not allowing students to express their opinions of their teachers will do precisely jack to make them respect their teachers. > > Wait, are you actually arguing for child labor? > I’m currently in my 15th year of public school education (well, a few of those years were at a private school, but the education there wasn’t as good), and I can certainly say - and explain - freedom of assembly. I maintain that our country as a whole is better off when kids are in school, as opposed to on the streets, and are taught various things about the world. More school usually means less crime. What do you consider a “child”? Child labor in the sense of sending 5 yr olds off to factories is an abomination, of course, but historically speaking, children have always worked, alongside their families, engaged in the day to day, real-life tasks involved in survivial. And historically speaking, childhood did not last as long as it does today. By the age of puberty or soon after, young adults were routinely working for themselves or others for money, marrying, creating households, etc.. Many of the founding fathers in the US were running businesses and living as adults by age 14 or 15. They tended to be self-employed, as did many of their peers, which made them not only competition for capitalists/other business owners but unavailable as workers to be hired by factory owners and others needing a large, willing source of cheap labor. It has been argued that high school should be eliminated and replaced with educational options more linked to real-life carreer/trade preparation. And work in those areas. That high-school age “kids” are actually young adults and should be treated as such. At any rate, no, I am not in favor of “child labor” as commonly understood. On the other hand, I am all for children having constructive work to do as family members AND for an earlier entry into the real world of work and other mature pursuits than is currently encouraged. More school, less crime? Well, yeah, if virtually an entire population is kept under lock-down for 40 plus hours a week (and as much of their free time outside school consumed by homework as possible) lots less chance for them to do ANYTHING, positive or negative. I’m glad you understand freedom of assembly. I don’t assume everyone or even most will, on a basic, real-life level, not as an abstract concept they memorized in school. We’ve already seen many willing to surrender rights which are basic to our society, and it’s a disturbing trend. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/55 "2009-02-10T01:21:00Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Which is a negative action against her as a direct result of her speech. By what definition is that anything other than a punishment? > > And since when does a _student_ council member represent the _school_? They’re not little PR ambassadors for the school, or they shouldn’t be, they should be representatives of the students. And if the students agree with this young woman that on occasion, the administration and/or faculty of this school are a bunch of douchebags, then it should be their choice to be represented by someone who shares their perspective. Why does the school need to change it’s voluntary program of student office to suit your world view? Fyi: Here is an example student council guidelines from first hit on google: > [@](#): > > 1. > > ``` > Be a good student, maintain a "C" average or better. > > ``` > > 2. > > ``` > You must relate well to others > > ``` > > 3. > > ``` > You must be a good role model > > ``` > > 4. > > ``` > You must be a responsible citizen > > ``` > > 5. > > ``` > Be a good leader > > ``` > > Guidelines for Student Council Members to Follow > 1.) Must be involved in school and school activities > 2.) You are responsible for getting a job done to your best ability > 3.) Have Student Council characteristics inside and outside of school > 4.) Must have a high maturity level > 5.) You CAN be removed from your position for poor behavior and grades as well as lack of participation. > 6.) Student Council President must be a senior and be elected by the student body. > 7.) The Class Presidents are responsible for conducting class meetings as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/56 "2009-02-10T01:23:12Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Everyone seems to be wildly overreacting in this situation, but I do think kids need to learn that saying something on the internet is not the same as saying it in private. For example, I wouldn’t write a letter of recommendation for a student who wrote such a thing on facebook about any teacher–but if I happened to somehow hear that they had said such a thing in private, it wouldn’t faze me at all. **Mando Jo** can you please explain why you draw the sharp distinction between a social site and a real life social situation? ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/57 "2009-02-10T02:22:39Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Removing a privilege is not the same as a punishment. That sets my bullshit alarm ringing in full force. You’ve set me off, so I’m going to revoke your driver’s license. You’re going to have walk, bum a ride, or take public transportation to work, the grocery store, etc. now. Oh, it’s not a punishment, though. Heavens, I wouldn’t punish you. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/58 "2009-02-10T02:40:31Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > That sets my bullshit alarm ringing in full force. You’ve set me off, so I’m going to revoke your driver’s license. You’re going to have walk, bum a ride, or take public transportation to work, the grocery store, etc. now. Oh, it’s not a punishment, though. Heavens, I wouldn’t punish you. Whether you call it a punishment or not is really not the point. The question is: Does the school have the right to set behavior guidelines for a voluntary program like student office? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/59 "2009-02-10T03:36:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Mando Jo** can you please explain why you draw the sharp distinction between a social site and a real life social situation? Because it’s published: it semi-permanent and open to the eyes of anyone who might see it–as opposed to a private conversation, or a private email. It’s the difference between calling the teacher a bitch and printing it off on a hundred fliers and posting them around the school. It’s in extremely poor taste. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613/60 "2009-02-10T03:44:19Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > That sets my bullshit alarm ringing in full force. You’ve set me off, so I’m going to revoke your driver’s license. You’re going to have walk, bum a ride, or take public transportation to work, the grocery store, etc. now. Oh, it’s not a punishment, though. Heavens, I wouldn’t punish you. What if your kid drives home drunk? Or lets a friend ride on the hood down the street? Or passes you going 70 on a residential street? Then can you revoke their license? Being scornful and derogatory about the school on a public board _while serving as an officer_ shows that you aren’t prepared to take the job seriously–just like not showing up for fund-raisers or bailing at the end of Homecoming when you are supposed to help clean up would. This isn’t an arbitrary punishment. It’s a reflection of the fact that the student doesn’t take their responsibility seriously. Don’t want to shill for the school? Fine. Don’t. But don’t accept the benefits of being a team player (i.e., looking like a team player for colleges) if you aren’t willing to actually be a team player. If they wanted to kick her off the soccer team for this, I’d call bullshit, because they really aren’t related. But StuCo is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-speech-vs-schools/484613.md?page=4)