# Free trade/currency devaluation \[merged Le Jacquelope threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 17, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848 "2011-06-17T15:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/1 "2011-06-17T15:54:25Z")
You don’t see China, South Korea, Mexico or Brazil enacting any kind of program to retrain people whose jobs were lost to free trade. Perhaps because they aren’t losing any, but rather, gaining? If free trade is creating so many jobs in America we wouldn’t need to retrain people. There’d be so much replacement demand for labor that companies would offer to retrain. Hell I worked in the tech industry; this was happening all the time right up until 2001. Come right off the street and get a customer service job for fifteen an hour, will train. So… why do we need the TAA, if free trade is bringing lots of better paying jobs to America? Perhaps the truth is that free trade is doing nothing of the sort? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/2 "2011-06-17T16:03:26Z")
For those who may be interested, TAA is Trade Adjustment Assistance. > [@](#): > > Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) consists of four programs authorized under the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 and defined further under the Trade Act of 1974 (19 U.S.C. § 2341 et seq) (Trade Act). It was proposed by President John F. Kennedy as part of the total package to open up free trade. President Kennedy said: “When considerations of national policy make it desirable to avoid higher tariffs, those injured by that competition should not be required to bear the full brunt of the impact. Rather, the burden of economic adjustment should be borne in part by the Federal Government.”[1] TAA is conceived to act as a way to reduce the damaging impact of imports felt by certain sectors of the U.S. economy, even as consumers and other sectors benefit from imports. The current structure features four components of Trade Adjustment Assistance: for Workers, Firms, Farmers, and Communities. The program for workers is the largest, and administered by the U.S. Department of Labor. The program for Farmers as administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and the Firms and Communities programs are administered by the U.S. Department of Commerce, Economic Development Administration. From [here](http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Trade+Adjustment+Assistance). ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/3 "2011-06-17T16:42:38Z")
Presumably because policy makers in the US took proper economists advice that while trade is a global positive, specific groups may need help and support as they will be negatively impacted in the short term. In fact, that’s exactly what it says: "“When considerations of national policy make it desirable to avoid higher tariffs, those injured by that competition should not be required to bear the full brunt of the impact. Rather, the burden of economic adjustment should be borne in part by the Federal Government.” Not hard to understand, despite your raging and comical strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/4 "2011-06-17T17:12:34Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > So… why do we need the TAA, if free trade is bringing lots of better paying jobs to America? Perhaps the truth is that free trade is doing nothing of the sort? This is just silly. Just because something is good for the US economy, doesn’t mean it is good for every single person in the United States. Reducing dependence on fossil fuels means that some Americans will lose jobs. Tightening standards for pollution from coal-fired electrical plants will result in some Americans losing jobs. Making cigarettes more expensive and harder for youths to buy will probably mean some tobacco farmers will go out of business. Just because some Americans are affected by a new economic policy, does not mean that the policy fails to be an overall benefit to the country. Massive logic fail by the OP. As usual. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/5 "2011-06-17T17:48:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Massive logic fail by the OP. As usual. I will have to agree with the point that this is silly, however after several of this discussions I concluded that it has been folly to keep things like health care to be dependent on employment. When one considers that, then free trade is unfair for the worker that has his job shipped overseas. The overall point here is that while the TAA is there, it is clear that it is not enough. Free trade (that I agree on the whole is beneficial) has to include in the deal a more substantial safety net for the American worker. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/6 "2011-06-17T18:34:38Z")
I’m totally with you – especially on the absurdity of the employer-based health care system. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/7 "2011-06-17T18:35:38Z")
Ah, another thread on Economic Creationism. If evolution is correct, why are there still monkeys? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/8 "2011-06-17T18:40:31Z")
That was the sound of my head asploding. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/9 "2011-06-17T18:45:04Z")
I started an ATMB thread asking for an omnibus Le Jac thread. So far, no takers. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/10 "2011-06-17T20:41:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If evolution is correct, why are there still monkeys? The Devil created them to fool us into thinking that evolution wasn’t true! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/11 "2011-06-17T23:13:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I will have to agree with the point that this is silly, however after several of this discussions I concluded that it has been folly to keep things like health care to be dependent on employment. When one considers that, then free trade is unfair for the worker that has his job shipped overseas. > > The overall point here is that while the TAA is there, it is clear that it is not enough. Free trade (that I agree on the whole is beneficial) has to include in the deal a more substantial safety net for the American worker. Silly? None of you have explained why America seems to need this, but certain other nations like China, India, Brazil and S. Korea, do not. Why are our workers the ones that get displaced, but not theirs? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/12 "2011-06-17T23:25:07Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Why are our workers the ones that get displaced, but not theirs? [Chinese](http://www.chinalawblog.com/2011/02/china_manufacturing_were_bringing_it_home.html) workers are getting displaced. Care to respond to that article? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/13 "2011-06-18T15:22:52Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > None of you have explained why America seems to need this, but certain other nations like China, India, Brazil and S. Korea, do not. Why do you think they don’t need such programs? Perhaps they do. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/14 "2011-06-18T15:36:30Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Silly? > > None of you have explained why America seems to need this, but certain other nations like China, India, Brazil and S. Korea, do not. > > Why are our workers the ones that get displaced, but not theirs? Because someone figured out that paying $30k a year to do a job anyone off the street can do doesn’t really make economic sense? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/15 "2011-06-19T00:56:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Because someone figured out that paying $30k a year to do a job anyone off the street can do doesn’t really make economic sense? You mean like programming computers? Really? Anyone off the street can do that? I’ll actually put money on that. How much do you want to bet that you could hire someone right off the street to, say, write a web page in straight HTML code? I’ll give you half the bet back if you can find someone off the street who can use Dreamweaver to make a workable page inside of a week. Really, the fact that silly comments like that don’t get questioned around here damages the credibility of the forum. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/16 "2011-06-19T01:32:20Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > You mean like programming computers? Really? Anyone off the street can do that? > > I’ll actually put money on that. How much do you want to bet that you could hire someone right off the street to, say, write a web page in straight HTML code? I’ll give you half the bet back if you can find someone off the street who can use Dreamweaver to make a workable page inside of a week. > > Really, the fact that silly comments like that don’t get questioned around here damages the credibility of the forum. HA, he said HTML! The poor guy doesn’t ever realize Word will convert it with the click of the button. Not to mention the hundreds of pages like [weebly.com](http://weebly.com) that uses drag and drop to build pages. Anyone want to bet how long until that’s the title of his next thread? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/17 "2011-06-19T02:45:14Z")
For those interested in actual data, there was a study published in the European Economic Review, titled “Trade and unemployment: What do the data say?”, which shows that increased trade openness, i.e., increase free trade, decreases long tem unemployment in developed nations. The [abstract](Trade and unemployment: What do the data say?) > [@](#): > > This paper documents a robust empirical regularity: in the long-run, higher trade openness is associated with a lower structural rate of unemployment. We establish this fact using: (i) panel data from 20 OECD countries, (ii) cross-sectional data on a larger set of countries. The time structure of the panel data allows us to control for unobserved heterogeneity, whereas cross-sectional data make it possible to instrument openness by its geographical component. In both setups, we purge the data of business cycle effects, include a host of institutional and geographical variables, and control for within-country trade. Our main finding is robust to various definitions of unemployment rates and openness measures. Our benchmark specification suggests that a 10 percentage point increase in total trade openness reduces aggregate unemployment by about three quarters of one percentage point. I found a full copy of the [pdf here](http://www.bancaditalia.it/studiricerche/seminari/2011/trade-unemployment/Paper%20Prat%20II.pdf). The OP does raise an interesting question: to what extent is the existence of a law evidence of a need for that law? ISTM that it provides very little evidence. Many examples abound: why does the US need to restrict gay marraige? Why does Saudi Arabia need to prohibit women from driving? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/18 "2011-06-19T04:47:25Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > You don’t see China, South Korea, Mexico or Brazil enacting any kind of program to retrain people whose jobs were lost to free trade. Perhaps because they aren’t losing any, but rather, gaining? > > If free trade is creating so many jobs in America we wouldn’t need to retrain people. There’d be so much replacement demand for labor that companies would offer to retrain. Hell I worked in the tech industry; this was happening all the time right up until 2001. Come right off the street and get a customer service job for fifteen an hour, will train. > > So… why do we need the TAA, if free trade is bringing lots of better paying jobs to America? Perhaps the truth is that free trade is doing nothing of the sort? Free trade is not a zero sum game, but that doesn’t mean its necessarily pareto optimal. There can be losers in the free trade game if the winners win by enough. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/19 "2011-06-19T05:32:07Z")
LJ, do you have any other interests in your life? Maybe a hobby or a favorite movie? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848/20 "2011-06-19T13:37:17Z")
> [@Dr.Love](#): > > Why does Saudi Arabia need to prohibit women from driving? How do you expect them to drive with those veils over their faces?!?!?!? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade-currency-devaluation-merged-le-jacquelope-threads/585848.md?page=2)