# Free Trade **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914 "2012-02-06T00:47:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/41 "2012-02-07T13:30:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But since we’re on that subject, how on earth does free trade result in monopolies? Companies that have an edge can use various tricks to drive their competitors out of business. And the bigger they get, the more of an edge they have; it doesn’t matter if Company A is better when Company B is ten times larger and can simply, say, dump cheap products at a loss on the market until A is driven out of business. Monopoly is a natural endpoint of capitalism; it takes government intervention to prevent it, or to break up monopolies that form. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/42 "2012-02-07T16:10:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > This simply means America completes its transition from an industrial economy to a postindustrial economy faster.Yes it hurts in many areas but the future jobs will on the whole be better paying and far more white-collar.And the Chinese people benefits from tremendous industrialization-while the sweatshops are often bad by our standards they are far better than jobs before as **John Mace** pointed out. I’m amused as I’ve said before that protectionism the hallmarks of ultra-conservative Republicans like Robert Taft as opposed to the free-trade advocates like Keynes and Cordell Hull (FDR’s Secretary of State) is now a hallmark of the left due to the guild-like tribalism of many unions. See, this is what happens when teenagers try to sound intelligent. Since they don’t know shit about shit yet, they try and repackage the conventional wisdom that they’ve read in their local newspaper’s editorial section and from their dad. “A hallmark of the left?” The neoliberal “left” has been one of the biggest drivers of free trade in this country. You’re “amused?” You clearly don’t know enough about the subject to be amused by any aspect of it, much less drive a GD discussion. Have you even had a job yet? You’re really going to sit here and act like you’re Thomas fucking Friedman, laying down “how it is” to us ignorant proles? Parroting what some asshole on television said, and taking your gut instincts and treating them as objective fact, is not the same as debating. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/43 "2012-02-07T17:59:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Companies that have an edge can use various tricks to drive their competitors out of business. And the bigger they get, the more of an edge they have; it doesn’t matter if Company A is better when Company B is ten times larger and can simply, say, dump cheap products at a loss on the market until A is driven out of business. Monopoly is a natural endpoint of capitalism; it takes government intervention to prevent it, or to break up monopolies that form. Ok will you provide a real-world example of government interfering to save us all from the bad monopolies? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/44 "2012-02-07T18:44:48Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Ok will you provide a real-world example of government interfering to save us all from the bad monopolies? The breakup of Ma Bell seems to have worked extremely well. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/45 "2012-02-07T19:08:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Companies that have an edge can use various tricks to drive their competitors out of business. And the bigger they get, the more of an edge they have; it doesn’t matter if Company A is better when Company B is ten times larger and can simply, say, dump cheap products at a loss on the market until A is driven out of business. Monopoly is a natural endpoint of capitalism; it takes government intervention to prevent it, or to break up monopolies that form. What does this have to do with free trade? “Free Trade” doesn’t mean “no government.” It means no international tariffs. You used a hundred words and didn’t answer the question at all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/46 "2012-02-07T19:20:02Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > See, this is what happens when teenagers try to sound intelligent. This isn’t the BBQ Pit, **MOIDALIZE**. Almost everything in this post is insulting and it does next to nothing to correct the mistakes you say **Qin Shi Huangdi** is making, which makes it more appropriate for the Pit and not a debate. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/47 "2012-02-07T20:20:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Companies that have an edge can use various tricks to drive their competitors out of business. And the bigger they get, the more of an edge they have; it doesn’t matter if Company A is better when Company B is ten times larger and can simply, say, dump cheap products at a loss on the market until A is driven out of business. Monopoly is a natural endpoint of capitalism; it takes government intervention to prevent it, or to break up monopolies that form. So the end result of this dumping is that consumers receive low priced goods at the expense of rich corporations. We all must join together to prevent this from happening. Monopolies are actually the whole point of socialism because they prevent the competitions that waste resources. For example if we had socialized medicine all of the money wasted in drug adverts could go to patient care or if we only had one car company all the money wasted on car adverts go to to improving car safety. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914/48 "2012-02-07T20:32:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In this case it’s not even close. > > But since we’re on that subject, how on earth does free trade result in monopolies? It doesn’t. At least not necessarily. It depends on the industry. Certain industries like the cable company are natural monopolies because of network externalities. IOW, it’s not efficient from an economic standpoint to have a dozen companies with a dozen sets of cables strewn all over town. What typically happens is an oligopoly forms where a few sellers dominate the market due to economies of scale. Think Coke and Pepsi or the big automakers. > [@Trinopus](#): > > A perfectly free market leads to “robber barons,” child labor, pollution, kickbacks, insider trading, etc. That depends on whether you think these thins are part of free trade or a corruption of it. People typically don’t like free trade when they are economically on the losing end of it (even though in the long run it tends to benefit everyone). It’s easy to complain about pollution and “workers rights” in other countries when you are living in a middle-class suburban American home. But do you take away economic opportunity from some peasent in Southeast Asia because the new factory that would have provided him a decent job isn’t “green” enough by Western standards? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/free-trade/611914.md?page=2)