# FreeCell, you might have played it...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 26, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534 "2004-03-26T08:07:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/1 "2004-03-26T08:07:23Z")
The game FreeCell is installed on most windows OS’s, at least recently. In the help menu it says “It is believed (although not proven) that every game is winnable.” Has this been proven or disproven? Seems to me that knowledge of the game’s RNG might give some insight as to whether or not the game will generate an “unwinnable” game.
I consider myself to be a very good player, yet I have come across a few games that have presented seemingly impossible game scenarios. An example of which might be, all of the lowest cards being at the top, and the higher ups cascading beneath them. I have never seen such an extreme scenario, but I’ve seen close to it.
So, is the game designed to give some very hard scenarios with all of them concievably winnable, or could it possibly generate an unwinnable one?
I think that people with knowledge of card stats in this situation, or maybe people with knowledge of the game code might know the answer.
Yes, it’s just a silly game, but it presents a potentially provable answer.
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### Author:  [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/2 "2004-03-26T08:23:34Z")
Free cell will only deal one of 32,000 games, out of a total number which is significantly larger than that (whatever 52! works out to be). Out of those, only one game is not winnable. This happens to be game number 11982 if you want to try it for yourself.
Cite: [http://www.jimloy.com/games/freecell.htm](http://www.jimloy.com/games/freecell.htm)
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### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/3 "2004-03-26T08:37:42Z")
So, if you play FreeCell, there is only 1 unwinnable game?
Have you told them?
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/4 "2004-03-26T08:48:41Z")
There is only one unwinnable game that will be randomly generated in Microsoft FreeCell, the aforementioned 11982.
In other (purchased) versions they include the 32,000 Microsoft deals and then add a lot more, and those versions have more unsolvable deals.
[Everything you ever wanted to know about FreeCell.](http://home.earthlink.net/~fomalhaut/fcfaq.html)
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/5 "2004-03-26T08:51:18Z")
Oh, I forgot. In Windows XP, the number of deals was increased to a million, and 8 of those are unsolvable. I don’t remember the numbers offhand, though.
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### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/6 "2004-03-26T08:56:50Z")
I think I found them. Maybe. Thanks for the info guys. I _should_ be able to boost my stats now.
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### Author:  [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/7 "2004-03-26T12:11:28Z")
I don’t know if it works in XP, but we did it at school. You can actually type in game number -1 and it’s unsolvable… there may be a -2, but I don’t remember…
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/8 "2004-03-26T13:01:31Z")
-1 and -2 both give what look like unsolvables - aces at the top, kings at the bottom. That’s in XP.
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### Author:  [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/9 "2004-03-28T06:34:51Z")
[52! = 8.06581752 × 10[sup]67[/sup]](http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=52%21)
So the older version with 32 000 deals has about 3.96735978 × 10[sup]-62[/sup]% of all possible deals, and the new one with a million has about 1.23979993 × 10[sup]-60[/sup]% of them. Of course, many of them (I have absolutely no idea how many) are trivially easy, obviously impossible, or essentially identical. For example, swap all the clubs with their corresponding spades, or switch the entire first column with the entire second column.
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### Author:  [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/10 "2004-03-28T14:45:36Z")
> [@dnooman](#):
>
> The game FreeCell is installed on most windows OS’s, at least recently. In the help menu it says “It is believed (although not proven) that every game is winnable.” Has this been proven or disproven?
The “proof” that certain games are unsolvable is that no one has solved them yet. I think you were looking for a more formal definintion of “proof”.
By the way, I’m not suggesting that these games have solutions that haven’t been found yet.
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/11 "2004-03-29T03:30:11Z")
The Freecell maniacs out there (see links given) have programs to run thru a game to determine if there is a win or not. Not all games have been tested, but the famous ones have been.
So the possible answers are: winnable, not winnable, unknown. The first two _can_ be believed.
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### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/12 "2004-03-29T06:57:17Z")
Why haven’t all games been tested? I thought they were.
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### Author:  [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2004, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/13 "2004-03-29T08:32:36Z")
Does not make any difference to me. I have actually worked 8166 of the games starting with #1 and going in order and not jumping around nor skipping, just do it until I get it and move to the next. It is a mind thing like playing chess or bridge. See how fast I can do it. or put up my own requirements, like not using all the ‘free cells’ or some such.
so, if running a program to see if a win is possible or not does nada for me. YMMV Some games are kind of tough for me but I am having fun. A game ya know. I have looked at 11982 and I think it won’t fly. No problem, I got 31,999 I can work with.
Fun, fun, fun…
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### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2004, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/14 "2004-03-29T08:52:47Z")
You scare me.
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### Author:  [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/15 "2004-03-29T19:42:31Z")
I scare me too. :eek:
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### Author:  [@Stainz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stainz)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/16 "2004-03-29T21:49:44Z")
scary … very scary … I was thinking about posting this same question this morning …
I’m addicted to Free Cell … and my SO’s aunt gave it up for Lent, 'cos she’s so hooked on it …
sorry, just had to share … 🙂
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### Author:  [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freecell-you-might-have-played-it/236534/17 "2004-03-29T22:04:42Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#):
>
> Does not make any difference to me. I have actually worked 8166 of the games starting with #1 and going in order and not jumping around nor skipping, just do it until I get it and move to the next.
So glad I’m not the only ‘freak’ who has done this. Much less stamina than you, however … I quit my job around 500 or so.