# Freedom Fries guy changes mind, opposes war. What does this mean for liberals? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062 "2005-06-13T10:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/181 "2005-06-14T17:39:07Z")
There’s no need for strong language, now. Anyhoo, it’s a pretty natural mistake, since it ends in /@m/ and Latinate words ending in /@m/ normally pluralize with /@/. (/@/ being the SAMPA symbol for the schwa.) The fun part is trying to predict which words use their Latin plurals and which grew new ones. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/182 "2005-06-14T17:42:45Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > The fun part is trying to predict which words use their Latin plurals and which grew new ones. Yes…that does sound like…fun. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/183 "2005-06-14T17:46:27Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Yes…that does sound like…fun. :dubious: Stop mocking me, or I swear I’ll start talking about the plural of “virus.” I’ll do it, don’t think I won’t! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/184 "2005-06-14T17:50:40Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Stop mocking me, or I swear I’ll start talking about the plural of “virus.” I’ll do it, don’t think I won’t! Virosceri, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/185 "2005-06-14T17:50:54Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Stop mocking me, or I swear I’ll start talking about the plural of “virus.” I’ll do it, don’t think I won’t! Your virupi don’t scare me. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/186 "2005-06-14T17:54:48Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Virosceri, right? No, no: virupodes. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/187 "2005-06-14T17:56:55Z")
Pshaw! The plural of virus is tralfaz. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/188 "2005-06-14T17:58:04Z")
The Freedom Fries guy is a modern prodigal son. The faithful son got overlooked in favor of the son who abandoned his father but returned. To me, FF is simply jumping on the bandwagon, but then I’ve always thought the faithful son got the shaft in the bible, too. Don’t even get me started on Cain. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/189 "2005-06-14T18:31:56Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The Freedom Fries guy is a modern prodigal son. The faithful son got overlooked in favor of the son who abandoned his father but returned. Kind of like Darth Vader. Decades of tyrrany, uncountable murders, and yet he gets all forgiven because he decides he just doesn’t want to kill his son today. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/190 "2005-06-14T18:37:47Z")
Erosion, in a word. Its been going on for some time, but it doesn’t make news because it isn’t news, it isn’t tied to any single event. The Bushiviks have shamelessly exploited the instinctive patriotism of working class, blue collar people. These are people who cannot help but feel that criticizing The Leader in a Time of War is inherently wrong. Amongst them, such persons as might be inclined to be critical are self-censoring, they keep their silence. Gradually, but gradually, it begins to dawn. In the diners, the beauty shops, the feed stores, it gradually comes about that the counter-argument gains legitimacy, it can be spoken without immediate censure. Everyone in this “class” knows someone, or is someone, who has a son, brother, sister under arms. Or worse, has lost someone dear in this asinine debacle. For a while, they can be silenced, or at least muted, by appeals to their patriotism. Which is why the Bushiviks tirelessly equate criticism of their idiotic policies as criticism of our troops. “Our wonderful troops are doing a great job, but, of course, Howard Dean doesn’t think so…” And so on and so forth, till you want to go behind a tree and puke your guts out. Given enough time, that erodes, it rusts. It becomes _legitimate_ to ask the hard questions. Why can’t my son come home, he’s been there for two years? To these people, that is much more the question than “where are the WMD?” They are willing to accept sacrifice, but not needless sacrifice. When the criticisms come only from faceless Volvo-driving liberals in some distant city, it is easy to scorn. When it comes from Midge down at the 7-11, who’s son isn’t coming back…that’s a whole different thing. No single news story effects this erosion, its the death of ten thousand cuts. My guess is that this is one of those rare public figures who actually _does_ listen to the people he represents, the people upon whom his political survival depends. And they are slowly but relentlessly turning sour. What will the Bushiviks do? They will look to re-frame the question again, to once again frame the issue as a question of patriotism and loyalty. (I hear vague rumors of a “flag desecration” constitutional amendment…) Some means to cast themselves as the loyal defenders of Our Heroes against the slanders and lies of freedom-hating liberals. Don’t think so? Bet me. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/191 "2005-06-14T18:45:27Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Kind of like Darth Vader. Decades of tyrrany, uncountable murders, and yet he gets all forgiven because he decides he just doesn’t want to kill his son today. > > -Joe [channeling Jeff Foxworthy] If you can take anything, _even_ a biblical reference and compare it to _Star Wars_, you just might be a Sci-fi geek. [/CJF] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/192 "2005-06-14T19:08:07Z")
[http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/11888623.htm](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/11888623.htm) **Mother of dead soldier vilifies Bush over war** > [@](#): > > The president of Gold Star Families for Peace, a mother who lost a son in Iraq, criticized the United States’ “illegal and unjust war” yesterday during an interfaith rally in Lexington. > > Cindy Sheehan of Vacaville, Calif., accused President Bush of lying to the nation about a war which has consumed tens of billions of dollars and claimed more than 1,700 American lives – including the life of Army Specialist Casey Austin Sheehan… Two years ago, would this have even been possible? Would the Lexington, KY, newspaper have dared to cover it? Erosion. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/193 "2005-06-14T19:16:12Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Kind of like Darth Vader. Decades of tyrrany, uncountable murders, and yet he gets all forgiven because he decides he just doesn’t want to kill his son today. To be fair, he also killed the Emperor. I don’t see Jones going that that far. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/194 "2005-06-14T19:22:13Z")
You missed the best quote from the article, **'luci:** > [@](#): > > “Beating a political stake in your black heart will be the fulfillment of my life…” Hell hath no fury like a pissed-off mom… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/195 "2005-06-14T19:30:33Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > You missed the best quote from the article, **'luci:** > > Hell hath no fury like a pissed-off mom… Oh, she’s just another mindless Bush basher (BUSHLIEDBUSHLIED). If John Kerry killed her son, she wouldn’t have any problem with it. Actually, thanks for pointing out the quote **rjung** , because… well…dayum! That’s some hardcore shit. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/196 "2005-06-14T19:43:58Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > You missed the best quote from the article, **'luci:** > > Hell hath no fury like a pissed-off mom… Good thing she specified “political” or who knows what could happen to her. -Joeitmo ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/197 "2005-06-14T22:30:05Z")
There is a kernel of truth in what **Binarydrone** and **Left Hand** have posted, and in that sense **Lib** bears some responsibility for this trainwreck (and others). Mostly, though, there really is something wrong with everyone else. He posts some thoughts on how liberals in this country have failed, and how they might, in his eyes, right the ship. The overwhelming response is neither agreement nor disagreement with these thoughts, but rather: ‘fuck you’ . . . ‘how offensive’ . . . ‘presumptuous’ . . . ‘liberal-bashing’ . . . ‘same old **Lib** ’. What the hell? And now even those who might be inclined to discuss the OP (e.g. myself) are stuck talking about the shitstorm, because the discusssion of the OP never happened, thus contributing to **Lib** ’s reputation as an agitator/drama queen. That said, I do wish he’d posted this in GD. The above sentiments would still show up, but there might have been more than a handful of on-topic replies. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/198 "2005-06-14T22:47:00Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I’m not level-headed. I can’t keep a flower pot up there to save my life. I’m very level-headed. [Here’s a picture of me to prove it.](http://www.thezorklibrary.com/thefallenempire/fhc/fhc9a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/199 "2005-06-14T22:48:34Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > There is a kernel of truth in what **Binarydrone** and **Left Hand** have posted, and in that sense **Lib** bears some responsibility for this trainwreck (and others). > > Mostly, though, there really is something wrong with everyone else. He posts some thoughts on how liberals in this country have failed, and how they might, in his eyes, right the ship. The overwhelming response is neither agreement nor disagreement with these thoughts, but rather: ‘fuck you’ . . . ‘how offensive’ . . . ‘presumptuous’ . . . ‘liberal-bashing’ . . . ‘same old **Lib** ’. What the hell? And now even those who might be inclined to discuss the OP (e.g. myself) are stuck talking about the shitstorm, because the discusssion of the OP never happened, thus contributing to **Lib** ’s reputation as an agitator/drama queen. > > That said, I do wish he’d posted this in GD. The above sentiments would still show up, but there might have been more than a handful of on-topic replies. You don’t see this as presumptuous? It’s one thing to argue that your politics would do the country good; I would expect anyone informed enough to vote to argue the same thing. It’s another thing to try to scrape together some half-assed bit of political theory to argue that liberals really should be libertarians. We’re not libertarians because we don’t share his views. He seems to think we’d serve our own beliefs better by abandoning them. Telling us that we don’t really think the way we do, and that it’s somehow evident that what progressives need to do is abandon our progressivism is awfully presumptuous to me. You might think what he posted was a relevant, interesting bit of political commentary. Apparently most of us don’t. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/200 "2005-06-14T22:48:35Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > He posts some thoughts on how liberals in this country have failed, and how they might, in his eyes, right the ship. The overwhelming response is neither agreement nor disagreement with these thoughts, but rather: ‘fuck you’ . . . ‘how offensive’ . . . ‘presumptuous’ . . . ‘liberal-bashing’ . . . ‘same old **Lib** ’. What the hell? . WTF! Why the hell would Liberals want advice from condecending Libertarians about how to rite the ship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062.md?page=11)