# Freedom Fries guy changes mind, opposes war. What does this mean for liberals? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062 "2005-06-13T10:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/221 "2005-06-15T14:43:28Z")
**cosmodan** I am not about to wade thru 5 pages of posts to find it. But I do know that I was the one who mentioned pro-choice, universal health care etc. You were correct in that they are policies stemming from principles I hold dear. I make no statement as to **Hentor’s** stance (although I think I have a good idea of it). Did I misconstrue your post where you “correct” Hentor on the difference between principle and policy? I believe that remark should have been addressed to me, not him. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/222 "2005-06-15T15:01:46Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > **cosmodan** > I am not about to wade thru 5 pages of posts to find it. But I do know that I was the one who mentioned pro-choice, universal health care etc. You were correct in that they are policies stemming from principles I hold dear. > > I make no statement as to **Hentor’s** stance (although I think I have a good idea of it). > > Did I misconstrue your post where you “correct” Hentor on the difference between principle and policy? I believe that remark should have been addressed to me, not him. That’s all. It is getting to be too much work to track all the posts ain’t it. 🙂 I understand your confusion. I was responding to Hentor’s statement about defending his principles forcefully {with profanity and name calling} and wanted to clarify what principles are IMO. The simialrity to your post was coincidental. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/223 "2005-06-15T15:04:18Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I’m not sure but I think that might be one of Liberal’s points. You don’t get it. I’ll explain further if you like. Actually, as you see, you did make an explicit offer to explain. I’ve asked several times that you do so, but your efforts have consisted solely of chastizing others for disagreeing and mischaraterizing their posts here, then crying foul and making pronouncements about what is proper. You keep claiming that these nefarious posts have kept you from debating the key issues raised by **Liberal** , and have now denied even making the offer to explain further. So, what did **Liberal** mean, how was it appropriate to link the elements of the Freedom Fries guy’s change of mind to whether Democrats have called for “Wars on This or That,” and how is it in any way appropriate to characterize the Freedom Fries guy as quiet. Feel free to keep sniping, bitching, whining and denying if you like, or provide the explanation that you promised. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/224 "2005-06-15T15:27:46Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Since _I_ certainly didn’t do so, I’m not sure why you’re telling me this. I would find this every bit as irritating coming from anyone else. And in fact I’ve jumped all over conservative posters for suggesting that the key to the Democrats’ survival is, essentially, becoming Republicans. It’s a stupid argument to make, no matter who’s making it. My apologies. In venting my frustration I incorrectly responded directly to "you "concerning some posts by others. I will try to avoid that mistake in the future. Am I mistaken or did you start your participation in this thread by referenceing a different thread Liberal had been in? I agree with you that argueing that Dems improve themselves by not being democrats is a joke not an arguement. What I got out of the OP was Democrats being urged to reconsider thier postion or at least examine the details, which does seem to be a viable discussion, and a point I happen to agree with.Perhaps you’re right and I was reading my own thinking into it. Your conclusion and about the point of the OP and what seems to be the conclusion of others still seems based in part on arguements **Lib** made in other threads. > [@](#): > > I’ve had various discussions with **Liberal** before. Not on this topic, though. I’m not sure why you feel the need to suggest that I was responding to anything but his posts in this thread. That’s a rather unpleasant thing to say about me, and whatever feelings I bear towards **Liberal** , they didn’t influence what I wrote in the quoted post. Again my apologies for lumping you in with the profanity and sarcasm that was in the first two pages of this thread. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you are unable to simply read something and respond to it without bringing in your feelings about something else; I do not share this disability. There, we’ve exchanged unpleasantries. Feel better? > [@](#): > > The post you quoted _was_ a discussion of it - perhaps you don’t like the fact that I dismissed it. That’s your perogative. **Liberal** certainly doesn’t need me to treat him with kid gloves in order to help his self-esteem - he’s a big boy, and he can handle himself. The post I quoted also seems to be drawing a conclusion based in part on other threads. I see the libertarian references but not the conclusion you draw. I see a request to look at your beliefs but not one to abandon them. If you find no merit in his arguemnt thats okay with me. My objection was primarily to those who had nothing to contribute but profanity and sarcasm. {you were not one of them}This is the pit however so I concede they are well within the rules. I also don’t blame them for the fact that **Lib** chose to respond to them more often than any rational discussion. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re responding to here, but it has nothing to do with what I’ve written. I’ve recognozed and explained my error. The hijack wasn’t you sepcificly. > [@](#): > > Like you said, you _are_ fairly new here. Let me explain, then - it’s considered perfectly acceptable, even _desireable_, to post and indicate disagreement with something. There is no such rule as you imagine requiring all posts in a thread to be in agreement with the first. And in fact, if you glance around the pit some more, you’ll see exactly how wrong your idea is. > You can’t discuss it if I post my own thoughts on it? I will participate in whatever thread I like to, and if it bothers you to see disagreement, you might want to find somewhere else to hang out. I can’t imagine what could possibly be going on in your head to make you think that it’s not okay to disagree with people. Don’t be ridiculous. Of course I support disagreement. My frustration was in posters coming in here with baggage from other threads and similar discussions and offering little except profanity and ridicule. I’ve recoginzed you weren’t one of them and apologized. You were making references to other threads and drawing conclusions that seemed based on previous political discussions. > [@](#): > > Be careful of making implicit accusations of trolling; there’s a particular rule about that and you’re edging close to violation of it. Then let me say for the record I see that it is not the same as trolling. It is just as annoying. I enjoy some good sarcasm and well placed profanity. It just got out of hand in this thread and did smack of hijack to me. For those who have little to offer other than that, I maintain my position. > [@](#): > > If you don’t believe that the post you quoted was relevant simply because it disagreed with **Liberal** , I’m not sure what to say in response. Tell me something - you seem to be defending him a lot around here. Do you consider it some sort of infraction to disagree with other posters, or does that particular rule only apply to **Liberal**? I believe I’ve already said how ridiculous this is. > [@](#): > > Pray tell, what is “hypocratical” (is that the new spelling?) about defending one’s political views? When one, or many use the same tone and technique that they find reprehensible in thier opponents, thats hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/225 "2005-06-15T15:45:04Z")
> [@](#): > > When one, or many use the same tone and technique that they find reprehensible in thier opponents, thats hypocrisy. Unless, of course, it is irony. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/226 "2005-06-15T16:20:53Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Actually, as you see, you did make an explicit offer to explain. I’ve asked several times that you do so, but your efforts have consisted solely of chastizing others for disagreeing and mischaraterizing their posts here, then crying foul and making pronouncements about what is proper. > . I see now that you misunderstood the sentance you quoted. I understand and apologize for not being clear. My offer was not to explain **Liberals** position. I was saying that the fact that you didn’t get the irony I spoke of might be part of **Libs** position. I said “I’m not sure” sincerely because I didn’t want to assume something incorrectly. I still decline to explain for him but I will for myself. I do understand that the link beween Jones and Democratic principles is tenuous and it’s been explained to me by **mhendo** in particular in a way that makes sense. What I didn’t see in the OP was liberals being blamed for the war or any of the rest of the sarcastic and irrational crap that followed soon after. I happen to agree that the Dems need to examine and reassess their methods and position. I don’t see how recommending that insults anyone.I don’t think that requires them to abandon their principles or being Democrats. I didn’t see where\*\* Lib\*\* recommended that in this OP. That accusation seemed to come from other threads. I was frustrated because I was interested in the subject and it was being abandoned in favor of **Lib** bashing. I have conceded in a previous post that since this thread was started in the Pit then you and others were well within the rules. That doesn’t prevent my frustration but it is a pretty legitamate “tough shit” Perhaps we’ll have the chance to discuss this in another thread and seperate the two issues. I think we’ve exhausted this one. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/227 "2005-06-15T16:26:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Unless, of course, it is irony. and possibly both. Like those swirly ice creams with chocolate and vanilla. Man those are good! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/228 "2005-06-15T22:43:19Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Anyway, elucidator and the highwayman --could I copy your posts? I want to send them to my Dad–another “yellow dog” Dem. I really like the way you expressed your thoughts. **I’m flattered. Please feel free.** ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/229 "2005-06-16T22:00:33Z")
Thanks! Welcome to the BB! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062.md?page=11)