# Freedom Fries guy changes mind, opposes war. What does this mean for liberals? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062 "2005-06-13T10:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/81 "2005-06-13T18:16:51Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe y’all should stop assuming that everybody who offers suggestions is your enemy, and that people who advocate liberty are stupid. And maybe YOU should stop making comments such as “people who advocate liberty”, as if to imply that us “modern liberals” are anti-liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/82 "2005-06-13T18:17:09Z")
> [@andros](#): > > What is your Kennedy fixation, my friend? Why do you make it an insult? Fixation? Have I ever mentioned him before today? He just sprang to mind as I constructed the metaphor. It was easier to pluralize than Franks. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/83 "2005-06-13T18:18:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And maybe YOU should stop making comments such as “people who advocate liberty”, as if to imply that us “modern liberals” are anti-liberty. I’ve asked you to show where you’re pro-liberty. Stop bleating and start talking. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/84 "2005-06-13T18:21:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Let’s see if you mean that. I recommend you let the market put them out of existence. Despite what you might have heard, it was people who took to the streets and forced government to make changes that brought about civil rights. It is not the case that an enlightened government stirred the hearts of its people. All government did was mollify those with the most political clout. Government does, and will do no more than, whatever is politically expedient. That’s why Indians still have no political voice, and gays can’t get married. See if I mean _what?_ What? I took your post as a swipe at affirmative action–and I replied. What exactly am I supposed to do? And what do mean “what I may have heard”? Huh? I am not twelve. The people in the streets did nothing without the people inside Capitol Hill acting on the people’s sentiments. The Iraq war caused the largest demonstrations world-wide…dismissed by the party in power as a “focus group”. Where have you been? And the Gment sure as hell made it harder for racist bigots to keep the legacy of bigotry alive. You think that left to itself, the business community would just start hiring minorities? How old are you? Racism survives, but is on the downswing, I hope and pray. IMO, Native Americans have no politcal clout because they have been for the most part rural and poor --and stuck on their own lands. Now that some are raking it in from the casinos–I think we will see a different balance in the future. They will never be a political powerhouse federally–there aren’t enough of them. I am not going head to head (bad pun) with you re: gays. IMO, that was a shrill and ignorant minority who set loose a firestorm (that would be the religious right, BTW). **Liberal** --I always felt that people were too hard on you. But I gotta say, I am thinking I was wrong. Jeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/85 "2005-06-13T18:23:21Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Watch out, or you are going to get this rugged individualist and opponent of centralized government to start crying foul because he has a [moderator’s ruling](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5792016&postcount=82) about the use of his screen name. I do not oppose centralized government. Is it okay if I call you Helen the Ballerina? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/86 "2005-06-13T18:25:36Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > See if I mean _what?_ What? What you _said_. That you’d _listen_. > [@](#): > > **Liberal** --I always felt that people were too hard on you. But I gotta say, I am thinking I was wrong. Jeesh. Well, could you maybe pick a spokes-taunter? Because you posted, what, twenty posts ago? And I’m like a one-armed Neo fighting a hundred Agent Smiths. But thanks for, um, listening. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/87 "2005-06-13T18:27:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Fixation? Have I ever mentioned him before today? He just sprang to mind as I constructed the metaphor. It was easier to pluralize than Franks. Then perhaps no one is taking offense on the Kennedys’ behalf, but rather the apparent intent behind your metaphor? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/88 "2005-06-13T18:29:36Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > And I’m like a one-armed Neo fighting a hundred Agent Smiths. And here comes the patented **Lib** martyr card, right on schedule. As soon as it looks like you’re getting your ass handed to you, the waterworks start as you wail and gnash your teeth about how badly we treat you. Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/89 "2005-06-13T18:31:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I do not oppose centralized government. What fragments of it you will allow to continue to exist. I think a three-story office building in North Platte, Nebraska would hold it all, don’t you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/90 "2005-06-13T18:33:36Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What you _said_. That you’d _listen_. > > Well, could you maybe pick a spokes-taunter? Because you posted, what, twenty posts ago? And I’m like a one-armed Neo fighting a hundred Agent Smiths. But thanks for, um, listening. I am not taunting you. I see where your remark about me “really meaning it” now falls into place. Relying on quickly written, poorly edited posts is not without difficulties, as I am sure you are aware. So, I take it your solution is to let market forces work for all–no regard to race/gender etc? I don’t see how that would have worked back in the day of Jim Crow etc–hell, black schools didn’t even have textbooks. We have a very long way to go, but we have made progress-and I thank the Dems for that progress. I think my glass ceiling just became glass block. IOW, I disagree. But I did listen. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/91 "2005-06-13T18:33:47Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > And here comes the patented **Lib** martyr card, right on schedule. As soon as it looks like you’re getting your ass handed to you, the waterworks start as you wail and gnash your teeth about how badly we treat you. > > Yawn. Accurate or not, your comment does no negate the central truth of his post. He is indeed having a lot of posts directed toward him in this thread, understandably, and it does take time and effort to keep up. If he misses a post, he’s an asshole, and if he addresses every one in turn he’s being slow. And if he comments on this fact, he’s a martyr. Thrice-damned, innit? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/92 "2005-06-13T18:34:43Z")
And right on schedule, the accusation of matyrdom. With one notable exception, you’re all demonstrating that what I said in the OP is correct. Hentor is screeching. Guin is driving by. You’re pulling up a lawn chair. And Giraffe hasn’t even retracted his lie. Business as usual, I reckon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/93 "2005-06-13T18:35:02Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > … you dumb cocksucker?.. I hasten to remind friend **Hentor** that an oral compulsion can be a very endearing characteristic. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/94 "2005-06-13T18:36:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe your offense meter is set a bit too tenderly. I’m not mocking you. I’m asking you to consider these ideas. After all, they’re ideas you used to advocate yourselves. Actually, I’m not a Liberal. So there’s no personal offense involved, at all. Personally, I think that if we’re going to see real change we need to create a viable third party, not expect some very old dogs to learn new tricks. YMM(O)V. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/95 "2005-06-13T18:36:41Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Then perhaps no one is taking offense on the Kennedys’ behalf, but rather the apparent intent behind your metaphor? The intent was to compare a a loudmouth to a quiet man, recently convicted and contrite. It was not a comment about anyone here. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/96 "2005-06-13T18:39:05Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > So, I take it your solution is to let market forces work for all–no regard to race/gender etc? I don’t see how that would have worked back in the day of Jim Crow etc–hell, black schools didn’t even have textbooks. We have a very long way to go, but we have made progress-and I thank the Dems for that progress. In those days, every robber baron had a local magistrate in his pocket. Discrimination was institutionalized. And goons were rewarded with special legislation. Apples and oranges with respect to a comparison to a market free from coercion. That’s what a free market is supposed to mean, not a free-for-all. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/97 "2005-06-13T18:39:16Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > And right on schedule, the accusation of matyrdom. With one notable exception, you’re all demonstrating that what I said in the OP is correct. Hentor is screeching. Guin is driving by. You’re pulling up a lawn chair. And Giraffe hasn’t even retracted his lie. Business as usual, I reckon. Drive-by my ass. I’m tired of you, tired of your hijacking topics to talk about YOUR views and YOUR pet philosophy, tired of you accusing modern liberals of not being “true liberals”, tired of your acting like anyone who doesn’t hold your political views is a tyrant and an enemy of liberty. And then, when we rightly call you on it, you whine and throw a hissyfit like a four year old. “Waaaah, Mommy, they’re mean! They’re picking on me!” “Waaaah, I’m a martyr, everyone is out to get me.” Fuck you, **Liberal**. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/98 "2005-06-13T18:39:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The intent was to compare a a loudmouth to a quiet man, recently convicted and contrite. It was not a comment about anyone here. Understood, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/99 "2005-06-13T18:40:29Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > What fragments of it you will allow to continue to exist. I think a three-story office building in North Platte, Nebraska would hold it all, don’t you? 🙂 I’ve never waivered in my staunch support of a strong central government, charged with securing the rights and property of its citizens. It needs to be however big it needs to be to do that, but no more. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/100 "2005-06-13T18:41:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m tired of you, tired of your hijacking topics to talk about YOUR views and YOUR pet philosophy… Um, it was my OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062.md?page=6)