# Freedom Fries guy changes mind, opposes war. What does this mean for liberals? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062 "2005-06-13T10:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/101 "2005-06-13T18:42:43Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Um, it was my OP. True, but she has a good point nevertheless. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/102 "2005-06-13T18:43:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Um, it was my OP. STOP THROWING HISSY FITS!!! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/103 "2005-06-13T18:43:08Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Understood, thanks. Thank you. I honestly don’t understand why my suggestions were so ill-received. I thought they were good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/104 "2005-06-13T18:44:26Z")
> [@andros](#): > > STOP THROWING HISSY FITS!!! 😃 You take a great risk defending me. I’m very grateful, but do not injure your own reputation on my account. Lose me, and no big deal. But lose you, and the board is poorer for it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/105 "2005-06-13T18:44:42Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > True, but she has a good point nevertheless. How so? I disagree with Lib. He knows it. And yet, somehow, I manage to avoid being upset by him. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/106 "2005-06-13T18:46:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > 😃 You take a great risk defending me. I’m very grateful, but do not injure your own reputation on my account. Lose me, and no big deal. But lose you, and the board is poorer for it. Reputation? Pffft. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/107 "2005-06-13T18:46:20Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Um, it was my OP. Of course, but I wasn’t referring to this particular thread. I was referring to your constant harping how anyone who isn’t a libertarian or, if you will, a “classic liberal” is advocating a dictatorship. Most of us don’t see life in such black and white terms. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/108 "2005-06-13T18:48:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Of course, but I wasn’t referring to this particular thread. I was referring to your constant harping how anyone who isn’t a libertarian or, if you will, a “classic liberal” is advocating a dictatorship. Most of us don’t see life in such black and white terms. Way I see it, **Guin** , he’s absolutely correct . . . _when starting from his own axioms_. That is, I understand how he draws his conclusions about tyranny from where he starts. I just disagree with where he starts. So, I think I’m right, he thinks he’s right, and I don’t take offense when he suggests I’m condoning, advocating, or supporting tyrrany. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/109 "2005-06-13T18:54:22Z")
I wouldn’t necessarily say I’m _offended_ by it, but it’s definitely annoying. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/110 "2005-06-13T18:59:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I wouldn’t necessarily say I’m _offended_ by it, but it’s definitely annoying. Well, it’s obviously “Fuck you” annoying. But I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Coffee\_Manic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@Coffee\_Manic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffee_Manic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/111 "2005-06-13T19:04:05Z")
“Fuck you” annoying. ? It’s not exactly a band name, but it’s something, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/112 "2005-06-13T19:07:32Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Understood, thanks. Wait, wait, wait… The Freedom Fries guy is “a quiet man, recently convicted and contrite,” and is contrasted with a “loud mouth”? The Freedom Fries guy??? You “understand” this? Can you explain what was quiet and not loud mouthed about the guy who demanded that the name French Fry be changed to Freedom Fry because he did not feel that France was sufficiently licking our boots? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/113 "2005-06-13T19:12:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Then it is an uncanny coincidence that you make fun of everyone who uses the words. This is untrue. Also, it’s a stupid and embarrassing thing to say. > [@Liberal](#): > > That is demonstrably false. If I show you dozens of instances in which compelling argument has convinced me that I was wrong _this year alone_, would you recant that accusation? Or is it something you you’ve already decided regardless of evidence to the contrary. You misunderstand what I’m accusing you of. I’m accusing you of turning other people’s political discussions into The **Liberal** Show, not of never changing your mind during one of your libertarian wankfests. It’s not a new accusation – I’ve seen it made over and over again. You usually dismiss your accusors as irrational enemies who hate you for either your beliefs or for no good reason at all. You changing your mind during one of your wankfests matters to me not at all. It’s your insistence on controlling and steering so many debates to be about you and your opinions that I find irritating and counter-productive. Disclaimer: since this thread started out as another episode of The **Liberal** Show, I’m not implying it is itself an example of your constant hijacking. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/114 "2005-06-13T19:13:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I hasten to remind friend **Hentor** that an oral compulsion can be a very endearing characteristic. Well, I meant that in a _Deadwood_ kind of way, not a _Debbie Does Dallas_ kind of way - that should clear everything up. I do see your point, however. I would ask why you need to go around exposing your point in public. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/115 "2005-06-13T19:15:20Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > 😃 You take a great risk defending me. I’m very grateful, but do not injure your own reputation on my account. Lose me, and no big deal. But lose you, and the board is poorer for it. I can’t believe people keep accusing you of acting like a martyr. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/116 "2005-06-13T19:17:55Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Wait, wait, wait… The Freedom Fries guy is “a quiet man, recently convicted and contrite,” and is contrasted with a “loud mouth”? The Freedom Fries guy??? You “understand” this? Can you explain what was quiet and not loud mouthed about the guy who demanded that the name French Fry be changed to Freedom Fry because he did not feel that France was sufficiently licking our boots? That’s not what I claimed an understanding of. I understand what he was saying. I never said I understood its reasoning, nor that I agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/117 "2005-06-13T19:23:03Z")
> [@andros](#): > > That’s not what I claimed an understanding of. I understand what he was saying. I never said I understood its reasoning, nor that I agree with it. Understood, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/118 "2005-06-13T19:39:33Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > And right on schedule, the accusation of matyrdom. That’s 'cause it comes right after “ **Liberal** casting himself a martyr” on the schedule. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/119 "2005-06-13T20:30:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > In those days, every robber baron had a local magistrate in his pocket. Discrimination was institutionalized. And goons were rewarded with special legislation. Apples and oranges with respect to a comparison to a market free from coercion. That’s what a free market is supposed to mean, not a free-for-all. And now, Big Business has the GOP in its pocket. That is not to say that the Dems are pure and w/o the taint of corporate corruption–but of the two, I’ll take my porkbarrel and kickbacks with a side order of true personal freedoms–religion, choice, clean air and water etc. I have no idea what you are talking about re: “a market free from coercion”–do you mean a job mart w/o affirmative action? How coerced are you under AA? To my mind, find a type of work that exploits your skills and fits your lifestyle–you’ll get a job. I am going out on a limb here and assumng you’re white. Well, we have not yet achieved the day when you will be turned away due to the color of your skin–it may well come, but it is not now. That cannot yet be said in reverse, _but for affirmative action and the mindset it helped create_ . Who said anything about the free market being a free for all? Please don’t put words in my mouth. I am highly dubious of uncurtailed capitalism–why not go back to using child labor (in some countries, they still do)? Why not pay women less than men, because they are the ones that can get pregnant? Oh, wait, we still do that one. Why not put the bottom line before any other consideration? Oops-we do that too. Why not refuse to invest in our own citizens by denying them preventative health care options/stopping pensions etc? Oops, again. How can you say you are for a strong centralized government on one hand, and yet lay into Dems for wanting to strengthen social programs etc? Just what is your strong central Gment for? Military? Infrastructure? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062/120 "2005-06-13T20:40:34Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Just what is your strong central Gment for? Military? Infrastructure? Pay attention, the only the Lib thinks is important is Property rights (well to be fair he likes invalid modal ontological proofs of god too), and they must be defended at all costs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-fries-guy-changes-mind-opposes-war-what-does-this-mean-for-liberals/308062.md?page=7)