# Freedom Tower?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381 "2005-06-29T16:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/61 "2005-07-01T09:48:37Z")
The Times critic illustrates exactly why it’s been almost 4 years and nobody has stuck a shovel in the ground to actually start rebuilding. Everything has to be fraught with meaning and tension, cultural openness, whatever ethereal concept the designer of the day wants. Fuck that. The WTC consisted of two giant rectangular buildings, made to house tens of thousands of workers. That’s it. It was a symbol, not because of the outside asthetics, but because of the inside activity. Now, everybody is so enamored with the idea of the replacement being a symbol of their good taste that it will take nearly a decade to get the site up and running again. Ten goddam years, and probably with half the number of workers we originally had. Put up a fucking building already and get people working. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/62 "2005-07-01T12:12:47Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Well the word “Freedom” wasn’t hadn’t become synonymous with Bush babble yet… so things have changed Sure it was had. He was trying to set usage records for the word since 9/11. In any case, 18 months after the design and name of the new building were announced just seems like an odd time to start a pit thread about the name of the building. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/63 "2005-07-01T12:25:24Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I personally don’t like the idea of copying an existing structure, namely the Statue of Liberty. On the other hand, if they’d copied the name as well and called it the Tower of Liberty, that’d be a huge improvement over Freedom Tower. Tower of Liberty. That works for me. On the other hand, it would make for such an obvious target of future attacks that I probably be scared shitless working there. But it would be great if they could build it so you can showcase art or something similar on it. Ah well. I have to say, I don’t really understand the need for such high towers anyway, when a country is as big as the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/64 "2005-07-01T13:09:56Z")
…you don’t? Ever notice Manhattan is an island? It’s been going vertical since the beginning of the last century–no choice. I believe the Freedom Tower was named thus by original architect Daniel Liebeskind, whose family fled the Holocaust and who’s been living in New York for the last fifteen years. In Soho. Where he saw the originals come down and wanted to make a statement about his adopted country. Look, I’m not a huge fan either but I gotta say I’m dismayed about the chorus here to keep our heads down, keep it small, run and hide–goddamit it, we’re Americans! We INVENTED the skyscraper! Are we going to let the terrorists take away our true spirit? Yeah, so it’ll be a target. Fifty blocks away is another–the Empire State Building. And the Chrysler Building. And the Citicorp building. And the Sears Tower, and all our shopping malls and schools and nightclubs and beaches and so on. And you know what? Schools for girls are targets in Afghanistan–better keep 'em at home, just like the Taliban want. Don’t bother to rebuild the electrical grid in Baghdad after any sabotage, they’ll just hit it again. Forget the National Museum, looters’ll just get it again. Keep your heads down, shut up, and everybody who tries to think big is a Republican stooge who just wants to make money. I say screw it. Islamo-facism won’t go on forever–I’m old enough to have grown up during the last of the atomic-bomb drills, and things change. We have to take precautions, yes, but we can’t let them change who we are. I like what this guy says in the Letters page of the Times today: > [@](#): > > The newly designed tower features a 200-foot-high concrete and steel base that is more a sign of fear than freedom. This immense block shows that our open society is contracting in the face of threats of terrorism. The appropriate security measures need to be taken, but not at the expense of the beauty and inspiration the Freedom Tower is to bring. Our skyline represents the dreams of all who live in and visit this city. The new design effectively says we are shutting our doors and limiting our visions to the future. …except he wants to rebuild the original towers, which were horrible blocky things that channeled wind and rain and turned their backs to street life, no matter how many hot/freezing plazas and malls were belatedly stuck around the base. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/65 "2005-07-01T13:24:51Z")
I much prefer [this design](http://www.kimdara.com/wtc/). Sends the best message possible to the terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/66 "2005-07-01T13:24:58Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > …you don’t? Ever notice Manhattan is an island? It’s been going vertical since the beginning of the last century–no choice. Except that the whole thing could have been relocated, just like airports are taken out of town. Or that modern communications systems make such crazy stacking totally superfluous. But hey, if they manage to fill up all that space and still make a profit each time, I can’t blame them. I just don’t think it makes a lot of sense. > [@](#): > > I believe the Freedom Tower was named thus by original architect Daniel Liebeskind, whose family fled the Holocaust and who’s been living in New York for the last fifteen years. In Soho. Where he saw the originals come down and wanted to make a statement about his adopted country. Look, I’m not a huge fan either but I gotta say I’m dismayed about the chorus here to keep our heads down, keep it small, run and hide–goddamit it, we’re Americans! We INVENTED the skyscraper! Are we going to let the terrorists take away our true spirit? The most comments here were only unanimous in that they thought the name sucked. Freedom Tower. It just sounds crap. At least Freedom Fries had alliteration. But freedom is such a dull, drawn out word. It doesn’t have a spark to it, unlike, say, liberty, which is a clear word with short, sharp vowels and playful consonants. Heck, even Tower of Freedom sounds better than the Freedom Tower. Brooklyn Bridge is the closest thing to it that still works, but again that has a powerful alliteration and even an assonance buildup. (sorry, I am trained to worry about language for a living, then became a programmer, so there’s some pent up stuff in there … :D) > [@](#): > > Keep your heads down, shut up, and everybody who tries to think big is a Republican stooge who just wants to make money. Well hey, the way things are going currently in the Middle-East, it will go on for a while yet. If they won’t try to blow it up, some anarchists or whatever might. Or not. In the end, I don’t think it matters that much, but I still don’t see why such megalomanic skyscrapering is any good. Perhaps in a hot climate, you wouldn’t need airconditioning higher up? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/67 "2005-07-01T13:35:37Z")
Bush certainly started his “freedom” this and “freedom” that routine in 2001. Its just become more pervasive and some kind of wierd meme of his. Freedom wasn’t a dirty word until a year or two of abuse. ``` I think building a monument or a new building is fine... its just the name that is itching. Like calling it Bush Tower. I also agree that office space in that tower won't be very sought after. Its like working in a target and cemetery at the same time. ``` ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/68 "2005-07-01T13:35:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Look, I’m not a huge fan either but I gotta say I’m dismayed about the chorus here to keep our heads down, keep it small, run and hide… Sorry, maybe you could point out the posts that make up this ‘chorus’. I’m looking over the thread right now, and I’m afraid I’m not seeing it. > [@](#): > > In any case, 18 months after the design and name of the new building were announced just seems like an odd time to start a pit thread about the name of the building. Yep; couldn’t agree more. There’s something vaguely sinister about all this. OK, OP, just what are you up to? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/69 "2005-07-01T20:27:53Z")
Originally posted by **Mehitabel** > [@](#): > > _I believe the Freedom Tower was named thus by original architect Daniel Liebeskind, whose family fled the Holocaust and who’s been living in New York for the last fifteen years. In Soho. Where he saw the originals come down and wanted to make a statement about his adopted country_ I love the name ‘Freedom Tower’. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/70 "2005-07-01T21:55:18Z")
> [@micahjn](#): > > “Freedom” is a dirty word now? No, more like a meaningless corporate logo. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/71 "2005-07-01T23:23:04Z")
**Mehabitel** , what the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/72 "2005-07-02T00:34:07Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I much prefer [this design](http://www.kimdara.com/wtc/). Sends the best message possible to the terrorists. I liked that idea too. If you want to send a message, say it with gusto. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/73 "2005-07-02T01:55:49Z")
Maybe “The Phoenix Building” would be more appropriate. Or the Be-All-End-All-Halllelujah-Ethereal-Gone-To-Glory-Survival Building Or something practical like “Mecca West – Sacred Shrine” > [@](#): > > **micahjn** : “Freedom” is a dirty word now? The meaning of the word is not dirty. As **SteveG1** indicated, it is the meaningless overuse of the word for propaganda purposes that lessens its impact. One propaganda technique is the overuse or misuse of words that we all can consider virtues, but which have different meanings to different people. Such words are known as “Glittering Generalities” in the study of propaganda. These are perfectly good words such as _civilization, Christianity, good, proper, right, democracy, patriotism, motherhood_, etc. – but we have to use critical thinking skills when these words are used to make sure that we aren’t being mislead. The use of Glittering Generalities in propaganda is like namecalling in reverse. One of my least favorite uses of _freedom_ is “Freedom is on the march.” Somehow the notion of _freedom_ wearing jackboots just doesn’t jive. YMMV. Pax ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/74 "2005-07-02T06:13:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > No. He made “freedom” a dirty word. I agree, and why do Fox News call their finance/investment programme “The Cost Of Freedom”? What has investing on the stock exchange to do with “freedom” , what ever that is? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/75 "2005-07-02T12:53:41Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I much prefer [this design](http://www.kimdara.com/wtc/). Sends the best message possible to the terrorists. [So does Max Carnage](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6314250&postcount=19) ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/76 "2005-07-02T14:21:28Z")
All I wanted to say was that, as someone who has followed this phantom building since 2003 or so, especially in the New York Observer and Times, I find no evidence of any eeeevil Bushies involved in the naming. I first heard it from Liebeskind and the name has been easily adopted by New Yorkers of all political stripes, even those who oppose the Tower (Ron Rosenbaum of the Observer is a particularly thoughtful opponent.) So 😕 yerself. ---
**Author:** ![Cockatiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cockatiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cockatiel)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/77 "2005-07-04T01:07:14Z")
I’d rather have the Twin Towers back, too. They might not be as spiffy looking as this (I actually like the design) but they were part of the New York skyline. Why not rebuild them and show the terrorists that we’re not afraid and their actions didn’t faze us? I also hate the name Freedom Tower. It’s just so…lame. I had a dream about something called the Zebulon Genesis Tower last night. That beats the name Freedom Tower any day. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/78 "2005-07-05T19:30:17Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > All I wanted to say was that, as someone who has followed this phantom building since 2003 or so, especially in the New York Observer and Times, I find no evidence of any eeeevil Bushies involved in the naming. You don’t need the eeeevil Bushies for this one, just the same stupid mindless jingoism meme that’s infested certain citizens of the US for the last decade or so. The Bushies are merely the most prominent example of this outbreak. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/79 "2005-07-05T21:30:32Z")
> [@Cockatiel](#): > > Why not rebuild them and show the terrorists that we’re not afraid and their actions didn’t faze us? 'Cuz we’d by stupid liars? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381/80 "2005-07-05T22:42:13Z")
What about the “brazen giant of Greek fame with conquering limbs astride from land to land” tower? That any better? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freedom-tower/310381.md?page=3)