# Freelance Mercenaries **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 4, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208 "2004-04-04T18:29:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/1 "2004-04-04T18:29:10Z")
At the beginning of the James Bond movie _Tomorrow Never Dies,_ MI6 identifies a guy as a chemical expert who helped arrange the Tokyo subway attack and is now working for rebels in Zaire. There’s also the movie _Ronin,_ which is about people who got “laid off” from the CIA and now work freelance. This got me thinking: do guys like that really exist? Are there actually freelance experts in high-tech military systems who go around hiring themselves out to the highest bidder, including terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/2 "2004-04-04T18:31:58Z")
I’d tell you, but then… ---
**Author:** ![john31584](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@john31584](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john31584)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/3 "2004-04-04T20:48:47Z")
It seems to me that if there’s a demand for a service, somebody will fill it. If something as apalling as child prostitution can be a money-maker for someone, it seems somewhat likely that there are people making a living as mercinaries. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/4 "2004-04-04T20:55:35Z")
There’s this guy named Smith…Hannibal Smith…if you’re in trouble, amd if you can find him, maybe _you_ can hire…WHOOPS! Godda go, that crazy fool Murdoch is messin with my van! ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/5 "2004-04-04T21:03:50Z")
[http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/executive\_outcomes.htm](http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/executive_outcomes.htm) - although they didn’t work for terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/6 "2004-04-04T21:50:52Z")
Check out this GD thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=248640](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=248640) It’s not necessarily high-level guys, but… There is also, of course, _Soldier of Fortune Magazine_ which talks about SOFs around the world (although as of late, I’ve noticed that they’ve almost exclusively covered Iraq and Afghanastan, but in the past, they had articles from all over the world). There were articles about guys helping the mujahadeen against the Soviets, if they count as terrorists. I recall past series of articles about S. African guys hiring themselves out as trainers/piots for various African nations, helping to fight rebels. These guys are more trainers/advisors than actual infantrymen I think, although there are some photos that show these guys leading the troops into battle (I think the life expectancy of a line infantry merc would be too low to make the money worthwhile). There’s also evidence that various terrorists go around the world helping other terrorist groups (links between IRA and Colombians, Palestinians, Serbs, etc.) as trainers, just like the “legitimate” ones do. You’re not looking for someone, are you? ---
**Author:** ![vlad621](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9de053/32.png) [@vlad621](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vlad621)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/7 "2004-04-04T22:06:58Z")
Being a mercenary is big business. [http://www.thethresher.com/mercenaries.html](http://www.thethresher.com/mercenaries.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/8 "2004-04-05T00:02:04Z")
Here’s a paper from somebody in the South African military in 1998 analyzing mercenary and private security companies, including a partial list: [http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJSupp/TrainingFormation/DefenceCollege/Researchpapers1998/privatisation\_of\_security.htm](http://www.mil.za/CSANDF/CJSupp/TrainingFormation/DefenceCollege/Researchpapers1998/privatisation_of_security.htm) ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/9 "2004-04-05T00:14:08Z")
The four Americans that were killed and dragged through the streets the other day were said to be mercenaries. They were all in their late twenties to early thirties, and were all former military. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/10 "2004-04-05T01:38:35Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > The four Americans that were killed and dragged through the streets the other day were said to be mercenaries. They were all in their late twenties to early thirties, and were all former military. There’s a difference between security personell and mercenaries. Security people defend people and property; they do not actively engage enemies in battle. In some cases, there is a big gray area, to be sure, but I haven’t seen any reports that the Blackwater folks were engaged in mercenary-type activities. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/11 "2004-04-05T02:14:15Z")
The [Wikipideia article on mercenaries](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Mercenaries_in_Africa) has links to modern mercenaries and their activities. Most of them are decidedly low tech. The idea that there are a bunch of free lance chaps with high tech weaponary is dubious. Governments are normally pretty keen to hold of their own stuff. Plus it’s really expensive. Mercenaries aren’t going to buy a multi-million dollar weapons system just in case a terrorist turns up with a suitcase full of dollars and a promise not to kill them. ---
**Author:** ![conczepts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e7dd6/32.png) [@conczepts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conczepts)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/12 "2004-04-05T02:55:43Z")
I would think most “mercenaries” tend to be guerilla types who are starving and join an army mostly for access to food, like in African civil wars. George Orwell fought in Spain for the socialists, wouldn’t that make him a mercenary? Here is some info on a Japanese mercenary named Masaki Takabe, who wrote a best-selling autobiography: [http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=book&id=108](http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=book&id=108) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/13 "2004-04-05T04:46:57Z")
> [@conczepts](#): > > I would think most “mercenaries” tend to be guerilla types who are starving and join an army mostly for access to food, like in African civil wars. George Orwell fought in Spain for the socialists, wouldn’t that make him a mercenary? > > Here is some info on a Japanese mercenary named Masaki Takabe, who wrote a best-selling autobiography: [http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=book&id=108](http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=book&id=108) Nope. Most of the non-Spaniards who showed up to fight the Spanish Civil War were volunteers and didn’t get paid beyond what they could loot. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/14 "2004-04-05T20:37:09Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > There’s a difference between security personell and mercenaries. Security people defend people and property; they do not actively engage enemies in battle. In some cases, there is a big gray area, to be sure, but I haven’t seen any reports that the Blackwater folks were engaged in mercenary-type activities. Check out the Blackwater web site. [http://www.blackwaterusa.com/](http://www.blackwaterusa.com/) Sure sounds like more than a group of rent a cops. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/15 "2004-04-05T21:19:10Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > Check out the Blackwater web site. [http://www.blackwaterusa.com/](http://www.blackwaterusa.com/) > > Sure sounds like more than a group of rent a cops. Why? Because they like to hire ex-SF guys instead of high-school dropouts? Rent-a-copping in a warzone is a significantly more challenging problem than doing so at the mall. That doesn’t mean that Blackwater is a mercenary organization. Show me some proof that they were engaged in _actual military operations_ of any sort. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/16 "2004-04-05T21:58:29Z")
Lots of former SF guys go to work for private security firms. In the relatively safe US of A, the daily rate for a guy working a personal security detail is between $450-550 per day. In a hot zone (Iraq & Afghanistan spring to mind), it can go up to $1000 per day or more. But it is security, not offence. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/17 "2004-04-06T00:24:52Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Why? Because they like to hire ex-SF guys instead of high-school dropouts? Rent-a-copping in a warzone is a significantly more challenging problem than doing so at the mall. That doesn’t mean that Blackwater is a mercenary organization. Show me some proof that they were engaged in _actual military operations_ of any sort. Here’s a site that CALLS the Blackwater group mercenaries. > **[Alternet.org](https://www.alternet.org/?StoryID=18193)** > > Alternet.org ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/18 "2004-04-06T01:27:57Z")
By definition, Mercenaries are from countries that are not a party to the conflict. The Balckwater people are from the US. They are therefore not mercenaries. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/19 "2004-04-06T04:30:39Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > Here’s a site that CALLS the Blackwater group mercenaries. > [http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18193](http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18193) Just because somebody says something doesn’t mean it’s true. Especially on a site prone to ridiculousness like Alternet. I can’t get that page to load, but I’ve got ten bucks that says there’s no proof that they were engaged in military operations, whether they call them “mercenaries” or not. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208/20 "2004-04-06T05:22:28Z")
These days they’re called [Private Military Companies focusing on conflict resolution…](http://www.sandline.com/site/index.html) They do exist, there’s 70 odd banged up in Zimbabwe at the moment after being caught on their way to Equatorial Guinea, where they were apparently due to help out an exiled politician with a coup…[Story](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3500832.stm) Check out [Bob Denard…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Denard) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freelance-mercenaries/238208.md?page=2)