# Freemasonry: Threat or Menace? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269 "2007-12-08T06:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/21 "2007-12-09T19:39:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] I s’pose I could throw down some out-of-context Albert Pike quotes to stir the pot a little, but I’ll refrain for a while. [/QUOTE] These don’t happen to be ones that mention Lucifer, do they? (And I don’t meant the totally bogus “Lucifer is God” one.) ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/22 "2007-12-09T21:07:31Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] These don’t happen to be ones that mention Lucifer, do they? (And I don’t meant the totally bogus “Lucifer is God” one.) [/QUOTE] Maybe. “Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!” And on a different subject - I’ve a Druze uncle who quite the Lodge because it was (I understand) incompatible with his religion. Unfortunately I know very little about the Druze, those relatives of mine who follow the faith don’t talk about it, so I can’t say what the problem is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/23 "2007-12-09T21:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] And on a different subject - I’ve a Druze uncle who quite the Lodge because it was (I understand) incompatible with his religion. Unfortunately I know very little about the Druze, those relatives of mine who follow the faith don’t talk about it, so I can’t say what the problem is. [/QUOTE] Most (not all) of the [Druze](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze) consider themselves an Islamic sect, but the majority of Muslims deny it, much as many Christians consider Mormons to be not Christians at all. Their theology is monotheistic with a dash of Gnosticism. Why that would be incompatible with Freemasonry is not clear to me. About 20% of them are “knowledgeable initiates,” which itself sounds rather Masonic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/24 "2007-12-09T21:50:02Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] (And I don’t meant the totally bogus “Lucifer is God” one.) [/QUOTE] Bogus? And what **should** you call the One who brings the light? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/25 "2007-12-09T23:59:56Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] I’m sure that it did not help, particularly among the mid-level bureacrats of the Vatican, but the pulling back from acceptance was already under way before the Ambrosio bank scandal broke and I don’t think the Vatican would issue any theological remarks based on the actions of a lodge that was illegal according to Masonic rules. [/QUOTE] Well, if the pulling back from acceptance started in JPII’s papacy, JPII became pope in 1979, which is the same year Sindona was arrested, and Calvi was arrested in 1982. So he hadn’t been pope long when the scandal broke. And considering it was the midlevel bureaucrats of the Vatican who write a lot of Vatican policy, I wouldn’t neccesarily minimize their importance. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/26 "2007-12-10T02:57:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Most (not all) of the [Druze](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze) consider themselves an Islamic sect, but the majority of Muslims deny it, much as many Christians consider Mormons to be not Christians at all. Their theology is monotheistic with a dash of Gnosticism. Why that would be incompatible with Freemasonry is not clear to me. About 20% of them are “knowledgeable initiates,” which itself sounds rather Masonic. [/QUOTE] Yeah. They attend the local mosque but I’m not sure any of their Islamic acquaintances know. Not being Islamic, Lebanese, _or_ Druze, I’m an outsider to all their ways. I imagine **Paul** would know, but isn’t at least some Islam opposed to Freemasonry? I know I’ve sat in Lodge with at least one Muslim, but that’s hardly evidence. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/27 "2007-12-10T03:43:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] That was about as close as I ever manage to get to humor. I try and try and try, but no one gets my jokes. [/QUOTE] I thought it was funny. Actually, I thought is was [del]ripped off[/del] an homage to Stephen Colbert. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/28 "2007-12-10T12:45:47Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Bogus? And what **should** you call the One who brings the light? 😉 [/QUOTE] No, I mean there is a bogus quotation falsely attributed to Albert Pike that says “Lucifer is God”… Go to Q. 2 on this page [Sec. 6, Anti-masonry Frequently Asked Questions](http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry06.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/29 "2007-12-10T13:16:51Z")
From Ambrose Bierce’s [_The Devil’s Dictionary:_](http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/f.html) > [@](#): > > FREEMASONS, n. > An order with secret rites, grotesque ceremonies and fantastic costumes, which, originating in the reign of Charles II, among working artisans of London, has been joined successively by the dead of past centuries in unbroken retrogression until now it embraces all the generations of man on the hither side of Adam and is drumming up distinguished recruits among the pre-Creational inhabitants of Chaos and Formless Void. The order was founded at different times by Charlemagne, Julius Caesar, Cyrus, Solomon, Zoroaster, Confucious, Thothmes, and Buddha. Its emblems and symbols have been found in the Catacombs of Paris and Rome, on the stones of the Parthenon and the Chinese Great Wall, among the temples of Karnak and Palmyra and in the Egyptian Pyramids – always by a Freemason. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/30 "2007-12-10T19:53:48Z")
I got to spend two hours on a plane while a (very nice before he noticed my ring) priest told me how I was going to burn in hell. The fact that I didn’t lay him out on the floor of the plane speaks volumes about Masonry’s ability to make good men better- obviously something rubbed off on me somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/31 "2007-12-10T20:39:14Z")
Not clocking the priest is just an attempt at Salvation through good works, innit? Seeking knowledge, helping children, valuing your family before the Lodge… that’s what sinners do before they burn, baby. :rolleyes: A random and almost humorous anti-Masonic rant [here](http://www.christswitness.com/freemasonry.php) ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/32 "2007-12-10T21:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I thought it was funny. Actually, I thought is was [del]ripped off[/del] an homage to Stephen Colbert. [/QUOTE] Did the “threat or menace” have an origin before J. Jonah Jameson’s libelous accusations against Spiderman? Maybe that… says something about me if that’s what I think of from the phrase. Do I think the Masons have some big secret? I sure do! And what would that be, you ask? That they just want to goof off and drink a couple of beers away from their wives every now and then ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/33 "2007-12-10T22:51:14Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Ernest Borgnine is a 33-degree Scottish Rite Mason. I like the idea of McHale being in league with the Devil. (I also like the Google ads in this thread.) [/QUOTE] I knew it! Check out the picture of Ernest Borgnine in “The Devil’s Rain”. [http://www.filmreference.com/Actors-and-Actresses-Bo-Ca/Borgnine-Ernest.html](http://www.filmreference.com/Actors-and-Actresses-Bo-Ca/Borgnine-Ernest.html) PROOF that Masons are Satan’s minions :). ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/34 "2007-12-10T22:57:38Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I thought it was funny. Actually, I thought is was [del]ripped off[/del] an homage to Stephen Colbert. [/QUOTE] Benedict: Great pope or _greatest_ pope? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/35 "2007-12-11T01:59:27Z")
[QUOTE=Spit] I got to spend two hours on a plane while a (very nice before he noticed my ring) priest told me how I was going to burn in hell. [/QUOTE] RCC? Orthodox? Anglican? I wonder where he got his views since I am not aware that any of those groups consider Masonry to be a ticket to hell? (My guess would be he grew up some place where the Masons were associated in the minds of the locals with the Illuminati and he never heard that stuff at the seminary. But I am curious where he came from and what he said.) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/36 "2007-12-11T18:52:18Z")
[QUOTE=wolf in second hand clothing] Did the “threat or menace” have an origin before J. Jonah Jameson’s libelous accusations against Spiderman? Maybe that… says something about me if that’s what I think of from the phrase. [/QUOTE] That’s where I remember hearing it from. ---
**Author:** ![I\_m\_No\_Saint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/977dab/32.png) [@I\_m\_No\_Saint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_m_No_Saint)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/37 "2007-12-11T20:19:19Z")
[QUOTE=wolf in second hand clothing] Do I think the Masons have some big secret? I sure do! And what would that be, you ask? That they just want to goof off and drink a couple of beers away from their wives every now and then [/QUOTE] SHHHH!!! Are you trying to ruin it for the rest of us? Kentucky Freemason Lodge #905 FTW. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/38 "2007-12-11T22:26:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Bogus? And what **should** you call the One who brings the light? 😉 [/QUOTE] Nah. Lucifer brings the Bud Light. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/39 "2007-12-12T16:15:19Z")
[QUOTE=I’m No Saint] Kentucky Freemason Lodge #905 FTW. [/QUOTE] Dry county, eh? > [@tomndebb](#): > > … a renegade lodge in Rome. Let’s call a spade a spade. P2 is part of the Illuminati, 'kay? Not the most competent part, but it IS filled with Italian politicians, no? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269/40 "2007-12-12T16:31:59Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Not clocking the priest is just an attempt at Salvation through good works, innit? Seeking knowledge, helping children, valuing your family before the Lodge… that’s what sinners do before they burn, baby. :rolleyes: A random and almost humorous anti-Masonic rant [here](http://www.christswitness.com/freemasonry.php) [/QUOTE] Verbally abusing people is good works? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemasonry-threat-or-menace/429269.md?page=3)